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+--- Thread: General Surgery thread - nothing official about it - csverysoon (/showthread.php?tid=227701)
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0 - ArchivalUser - 01-09-2008
my reaearch on this issue has led me to believe that j1 on prelim is a death blow. u go no where from there as your only option is to find a pgy 2. but i dont know what about h1 prelim then what next. i want some one to shed a huge amount of light on all this.
0 - ArchivalUser - 01-10-2008
thanks muzzamil to press on this issue.. guys plz opine
0 - ArchivalUser - 01-10-2008
dhoni yaar
i am doing nothing. that is irritating me a lot. i am planning to go back to india soon.
0 - ArchivalUser - 01-10-2008
this is for muzammil, pancreas and all other guys who are pondering about prelims and visa. hope this thing helps. i had to spend a good 20 minutes to get the correct page. GL everyone.
* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1039201
csverysoon - 11/08/07 12:04
kqbank
prelims isnt without risk. like you have mentioned you can end up getting J1 or worst you have to again go through match for cat the very next year. i dont know how good a lor you will get in 2 or 3 months. but my point is if you have nothing else its always better to do something like prelims cause
1. you have valid fillup in your resume for your time from graduation
2. you get solid USCE as its not observership
3. you sure will get us lor
4. if lucky you can finish a couple of papers
5. if you are social yo are bound to make contacts that are gonna help you
thats my point. and its getting hell a lot of tough that a guy like me with no uscr and us lor should take whatever that comes my way. also i am very uncomfortable with scramble. dont really know how it works so i wanna finish things soon.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1039203
muzammil - 11/08/07 12:05
good morning everybody
kqbank prelim is safe dont worry about it. just try to get into the system
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1039218
kqbank - 11/08/07 12:15
thanks CS and muzammil
Prelim is certainly helpul for atleast meaningful USCE.
2 things have to happen simultaneously for p to c conversion.
1. your ecxellent performance 2. vacancy in pgy-2 in the same program.
prelim on H-1 is i think fine.
but on j-1 you can't repeat prelim. so if a program is willing to take you into categorical and not pgy-2 than you are stuck.
i would say research for a year on h-1 is safe ( not j-1) than prelim on j-1.
i don't know in depth though so may be wrong in judging.
i selected p and c for all programs. so prelims also don't come easily this year, indicating the level of competition. you are right Cs.
what do you think for visa. is that an issue this year. i mean do applicants with GC/citi. have more IV with similar or less credentials than a visa seeking applicant ?
GL
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1039227
muzammil - 11/08/07 12:19
i totally agree with cs prelim has its risk but its lot lot better than nothing. so i will be very happy to grab even a prelim if it comes my way. and as far as i have reserached i have found only a few unlucky ppl who have really been trapped in prelim. rest have got something after prelim. but no body can plan 100 percent safe.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1039239
csverysoon - 11/08/07 12:24
kqbank
even if there is no vacancy in pgy2 in the same program you stand at a better chance to match in some other program or the same program again. only drawback is doing pgy1 again. but atleast this way your creds become really solid. once you are applying while being in a pgy1 the program directors will not doubt your english proficiency or your working ability and wont wonder whether you will fit in the american medical system as you are already in the system.
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0 - ArchivalUser - 01-10-2008
Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1039249
csverysoon - 11/08/07 12:27
one thing i have seen this year is that there are a few programs that have visa issues and they have not invited any IMG with visa need. other than that the usual visa sponsors have called as many IMGs with visa needs as they usually do. actually the criteria changes for different programs man, for some its no visa, for some its fresh graduate and for some its being american graduate. so cant stick on one thing.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1039251
splinter - 11/08/07 12:27
u make a good point cs and so does kqbank. if i get a prelim with a H1, anybody would grab it, but with a J1 i would definately think very hard about it and look at other options. if i am absoulutely stuck...then...i dunno...i still might not take it. its difficult to make hypothetical decisions. i guess when and if the time comes, itll depend on my state of mind (read desperation).
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1039254
csverysoon - 11/08/07 12:29
rightly said splinter. in the end we all may make crazy decisions just because we are desperate. LOL
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1039285
muzammil - 11/08/07 12:41
i have heard ppl shifting form j1 prelim to j1 cat. i belive seeing cometition in sugery we should not be choosy in prelim and cat.
0 - ArchivalUser - 01-10-2008
* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1039502
sushrutha - 11/08/07 14:56
hey Slinter I am not in PGY-1 but the situation is true I have two friends in a similar situation with not a single interview this year even after one year of experience . U never know anything can happen I am almost planning to change name from Sushritha to something ------------------------------ good luck to all of us nothing positive so far except to IVs in Medicine something better than nothing u never know
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1039503
csverysoon - 11/08/07 14:56
seems like the PDs dont see any difference in all of us.
* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1051490
life_saver00 - 11/16/07 20:23
guys i need your sincere advice
i will be honest with u and need advice from u
first i was invited for kentucky university GS but for preliminary position, i had interviews in good places in IM for categorical position,but i really like surgery
what is the chance of completing to catecorical surgery of even orthopedics after the preliminary year
i really donot have to much experince and all the experince i got from u guys
thnx in advance
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1051665
bidd - 11/16/07 22:26
hey lifesaver,you said you like surgery ,so let us keep discussion on surgery,see man if you are lucky and get prelim in kentucky university,it will open many chances for you next year and gurantee you a catogorical position in general surgery or you even can try for orthopedic next year because at that time u will have one year of prelim in excellent univeristy program and as you know all ortho programs need one year prelim,so if you will do that ,for sure you will gurantee ortho next year,any way wait for other opnions and GL
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1051693
csverysoon - 11/16/07 22:43
lifey
its your call man. what ever comes out of this, nobody can predict the end. so analyse the situation make a decision. if surgery is all that you want i dont know what you will draw out of doing IM? sincerely thats my take on it. that said, its not gonna be easy to change to pgy2 from a preliminary position. but then this whole match thing is not a cake walk. we all taking chances baby.
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0 - ArchivalUser - 01-10-2008
* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1051815
sporez - 11/17/07 00:52
Life_safer,
I heard it's difficult to get PY2 categorical but going into a field that is not appealing to you may also not be the best option. It's very difficult to advice you on your best bet. If you just go into IM without giving a good fight for Surgery you may not be happy later on as part of you may be telling you that "may be if I had tried Prelim I would have gotten Cat PY2". Then if you stick to Prelim Surg and fail to get into Cat PY2 you may also regret it.
For me, what matters most is the field/specialty. Given that a University program invited you to interview, it means you are very competitive. You may gamble it by going into PY1 Prelim and apply mainly to community programs for Cat. But it's up to you to decide.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1051834
muzammil - 11/17/07 01:09
life saver. if u think u are only for surgery then take the chance. fortune only favors the barve. u cant achieve tremendous things without taking risks, life itself is a risk. thats what i think. but if u think u can be comfortable with IM too then its totally ur choice u wan play safe or take a chance. as there are no gaurantees that u will be able to switch to a cat after prelim.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1051913
bidd - 11/17/07 02:40
life saver,i think all what guys said is right,but u know freinds sometimes things go where u have no other options,so my advice you continue what are u doing,and iam here talking about surgery,continue on your prepartion and do your best in the interviews wether it is catogorical or preliminary,you will not loss anything if you finish your interviews as required,but if they ask you for prematch in prelimnary ,i think it is better not to be hurry in making decisions and wait for the match ,you may get catogorical and avoid all the sequalle of prelim position,and when you do the rank put all the catogorical programes you interviewed with first and before the prilm positions,so you will hit 2 birds with one stone
So as u see ,in this stage i think you dont have to choose between prelim and catogorical,you have to do what get of interviews and make your decision later at the time of ranking by giving high rank to catogorical positions,and dont be sorry if you will n ot accept prematch in prelim position because i think because of your credintials you will get it easy in the match or scramble if you miss the catogoical..............gl
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1051917
life_saver00 - 11/17/07 02:49
thnx bidd, cs,sporez,muzammil for your help
i agree with what u said guys
i will rank surgery categorical,then preliminary,then im categorical
the only thing that made me to bring IM ,that i am invited in wonderful IM programs
so what will be my priorities
thanx again guys
and specail thnx to cs for all his effort in this thread,that united all GS applicants,this is because this thread is characterized by decency and honesty
let me ask u another question guys
which is easier ,going from preliminary GS to PGY2 GS or going from PGY1 IM to PGY1 GS in the same program
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1052155
matchblaster - 11/17/07 10:02
Hello everybody,I am new to this forum.Regarding the question asked by life saver regarding joining PGY1 IM and switching over to PGY1 GS the following year, can someone throw some light if we are allowed to repeat PGY1 residency year twice.As far as I know, residency positions are funded by the federal government and there is some restriction whether PGY1 year can be repeated twice.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1052267
pranil - 11/17/07 11:32
life_saver00,
I definitely agree with what bidd, cs, sporez said regarding preliminary surgery. if every beat of your heart like mine says that you want to become a surgeon i would suggest give a toughest fight no matter what happens. if u really like surgery do preliminary in surgery. i don't believe that doing preliminary in IM would help you in getting in PGY1 GS. it is always better to do preliminary in the field u r interested so that no one question your commitment.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1052276
pranil - 11/17/07 11:36
also, don't think anything else like to play safe or take a chance, for a moment, just think how would you feel in Internal medicine/Surgery if you see yourself 10 or 20 years down the road. If you observe no difference then you can choose any discipline. but if u feel i won't be happy with IM there is no point in taking it, instead fight for surgery. if u don't make it in US go back to your home country and try there, bcoz in life what really matter is how would you see your life at the age of 50, 60 or 70.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1052419
sporez - 11/17/07 13:51
It is always tempting to opt for a program in a prestigious university but from what I have gathered so far, it is more important the field you are in. As Pranil pointed out if you don't mind whther it's IM or Surgery then accept categorical but if you are like some of us who may feel unfulfilled with IM then fight for surgery. I rather do Surgery at Harlem or any other none prestigious center than Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins or Havard. That's the way I see it and I know some other people feel differently.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1052445
muzammil - 11/17/07 14:13
life saver i agree 100% with pranil and sporez. regarding ur question about prelim to cat i have been to two genral surgery ivs till now one prelim and one mix interview and i asked this question particuarly at both intervoew where do the prelim go and what i got from them is that most people werr able to get into specilty of their choice after one yr prelim be is catagorical surgery or some other surgical specielty. in fact from what i understood it imgs in catgorical in big hospitals are almost all those who have done prelims.
as bidd righlty said this is not a decesion u have to take now. just go with ur interviews. and at the time of rank order list decide about ranking. i am sure as u attend interviews most of your question will get answered.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1052646
csverysoon - 11/17/07 17:27
Here is something to help all of you guys. I have tried to arrange a few combinations according to the difficulty in ascending order. Its based on my own understanding of the issues governing these matters. As ever discussions are welcome.
1. Switching from Preliminary surgery PGY1 to PGY1 (categorical) in the same program or some other. P.S: This is possible, only if you did the first PGY1 under H1B.
2. Switching from PGY1 Internal Medicine to PGY1 surgery (preliminary)
3. Switching from PGY1 Internal Medicine to PGY1 surgery (preliminary)
4. Switching from PGY1 surgery to PGY2 surgery
May be 3rd and 4th are interchangeable but i am sure about the first two choices. Inference: Somebody can ofcourse sign prematch for Surgery Preliminary if chances in match or scramble are not GREAT if and when he/she is sponsored H1B only. Hope this helps.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1052909
life_saver00 - 11/17/07 21:50
thnx guys for all this posts
cs> in your ranking what is the diffeerence between 2 and 3
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1052926
csverysoon - 11/17/07 22:23
SORRY THERE WAS A SMALL BUT GRAVE MISTAKE SO I AM REPOSTING IT.
Here is something to help all of you guys. I have tried to arrange a few combinations according to the difficulty in ascending order. Its based on my own understanding of the issues governing these matters. As ever discussions are welcome.
1. Switching from Preliminary surgery PGY1 to PGY1 (categorical) in the same program or some other. P.S: This is possible, only if you did the first PGY1 under H1B.
2. Switching from PGY1 Internal Medicine to PGY1 surgery (preliminary)
3. Switching from PGY1 Internal Medicine to PGY1 surgery (categorical)
4. Switching from PGY1 surgery to PGY2 surgery
May be 3rd and 4th are interchangeable but i am sure about the first two choices. Inference: Somebody can ofcourse sign prematch for Surgery Preliminary if chances in match or scramble are not GREAT if and when he/she is sponsored H1B only. Hope this helps.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1052930
csverysoon - 11/17/07 22:27
the extra difficulty in moving from pgy1 preliminary surgery to categorical surgery is due to the paucity of pgy2 seats available which is mainly due to resident attrition.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1052947
god_help_us - 11/17/07 22:53
CS Thanx for all the posts..It is really helpful
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1053082
hamiltonnaki - 11/18/07 02:09
@csverysoon
thanks for the post on IV questions...
Are you sure that it is NOT possible to change from prelim PGY1 to cat PGY1 when u r on J1 visa?
(this should be a common query for any specialty)
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1053084
csverysoon - 11/18/07 02:16
J1 is sponsored by ECFMG for IMG to train in specialities that are deficient in their home countries. In J1 a resident can spend a maximum of 7 years and hence he/she can also complete fellowships. Lets not waver our discussion towards how to waiver J1. The point here is if one does PGY1 under J1 then he/she can not do the same training again under J1. In other words, you can not apply for match the next year as it will make you do PGY1 again in the same or other new program. Hence if you do PGY1 in J1 you have to move on to PGY2 somehow. Now that is a very difficult task as the only oppurtunity then is unfilled match positions and positions that have become available due to attrition. That is not a very great number to hope a lot about. Hope this helps.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1053087
hamiltonnaki - 11/18/07 02:21
I agree that the J1 says that you need to have progressive training..
But i think J1 allows you to change the program once ONLY...
any comments?
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1053289
csverysoon - 11/18/07 11:24
Like i said i dont think we can do the same training (PGY1) again under J1
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1053467
kqbank - 11/18/07 13:21
hey guys,
i was away for couple of days. and am back with a prelim ( P) IV from Upenn.
i was frustrated and than it showed me some hope that i am not totally out of the race.
someone told correctly, this is the only thread that brings me back to the forum. excellent job CS and all other friends. this is not only helping us but will do so for next year's folks as well.
for prelim: CS is right. i will take P only if they give me H1B. P on J1 is like dead end.
for J1, you have to be extremely GOOD ( program can create a PGY-2 spot for you ) or
LUCKY ( to have unfilled positions in the program).
We should always take risk but at the same time it should not be a suicide.
GL for next week friends.
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0 - ArchivalUser - 01-10-2008
* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1053587
life_saver00 - 11/18/07 14:31
thnx CS u have been inspiration here to most of the surgery applicants
for me i donot need a visa,so it will put me in good position,what do u think CS?
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1053832
csverysoon - 11/18/07 17:52
if you dont need a visa, lifey then dont give a damn to all these things get the first surgery spot you get (prelims or surgery) then sign off man.
* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1054337
md03 - 11/19/07 09:21
Hi csverysoon
About your post of prelim surgery to categorical surgery on J visa. I know many people who have done that. I think the reason is because its a shift from a prelim to a categorical spot.
Plus you are absolutely right one can not repeat PGYI again on prelim except once there is a shift of speciality.
Good luck all
* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1056181
mahabarat - 11/20/07 07:16
Guys i was very enthusiastic about surgery last year, had a green card offer from one of the internal medicine programs in New york but i left it for a preliminary spot, THAT WAS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE OF MY LIFE. Guys i would advice never do what i did. If you get a categorical position that's fine, but if you get prelim position then always prefer a categorical position in other specialties.
With me own experience, 94 / 93 scores, 87 in step3, already have J1 visa, preliminary resident in one of the good university programs, I did not get a single cat interview for surgery. Althoough my LORs are pretty good and 2005 grad but still .........
i am not discouraging you guys but i tell you prelim surgery is a Mirage !!!!!
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1056698
surgery1 - 11/20/07 13:45
Mahabharat,
just curioust to ask your opinion ... as u r doing ur prelim on j 1 u must have researched a lot for the shift from j1 prelim to j 1 categorical issue(pgy 1 or pgy 2). or again to prelim issue.
can u please share a bit from ur knowledge that , is it possible to get pgy 2 from prelim j1 status (if u have came across any statastical data or personal experience) ?
or have u confirmed with ecfmg about repeating pgy 1 with categorical as u are on j 1 prelim ?
i think you are the person who can guide us all in this burning issue.
thanks in advance.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1056801
md03 - 11/20/07 14:47
Life_saver00 , man even if you have no visa issue I would rank IM categorical above all (learned the hard way)
surgery1 : you can do prelim 2 or categorical on J visa, have seen many friends but cannot repeat prelim 1 again no matter what speciality.
Surely will need opinion of Mahabharat on it , as myself havent checked with ECFMG.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1056802
juanitothegooddoc - 11/20/07 14:47
it looks that you have a better chance at IM.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1056854
sporez - 11/20/07 15:12
Thanks Life_safer. How I wish I had better Internet access! My Interview is on 25 January. I want to request for a change of date to late December/ early January since I have another Interview (OBGY) late December in NY.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1057232
anothergoljafan - 11/20/07 18:10
guys. i wanted to ask, how difficult is it to find a categorical spot after doing prelimnary spot. i have a gc. no visa issue.
or after doing PGY1 if i continue at the same PGY 2 at same hospital, how diffiicult is to get PGY 3 categorical.
* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1056183
mahabarat - 11/20/07 07:20
and mind you this year i got 5 good interviews in internal medicine but now i have lost the advantage of H1 and Green card as i am on J1.
Total number of position that is given to IMGs needing visa is not more then 60-70 and for that at least 600-700 IMGs are applying. At least 75 % of these positions goes to guys who have alot of surgical experiece back home or have done 2 years of prelim.
alot of you will start to criticise me but i tell you, i am NOT discouraging anyone. I am in this system and knows better then anyone of you.
* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1056230
md03 - 11/20/07 08:55
Hi Mahabart
I totally agree with you. I myself is a prelim resident and can understand the stress. I have only two interviews in categorical, one from my own hospital.
My scores are 98/96/82 J visa.
I have applied late for IM as a back up and you know why, because I was confident will have good chance this year so now have only one IM interview . Guys take categorical where ever you find it or prelim on H.
good luck to all
0 - ArchivalUser - 01-10-2008
* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1057982
bidd - 11/21/07 02:17
iam sorry but let me repeat this part of Mahabart message( If you get a categorical position that's fine, but if you get prelim position then always prefer a categorical position in other specialties.)so can you guys please clarify this phrase more,and would it been applied to green card holders?
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1057984
life_saver00 - 11/21/07 02:19
bidd
i asked them both about that caz i am in the same situation
so i will like to hear the explaination of that as well
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1057997
md03 - 11/21/07 03:16
Man sorry for the delay . I was in trauma whole day, now had a chance to check my emails etc
Ok bidd and life_saver00, I am sure Mahabart will agree with me, Here it goes, in order of preference for surgery categorical positions , visa or no visa issue:
1 AMG
2 AMG
3 AMG
4 IMGS WITH MRCS/FRCS/ EXP OF WHAT WE CANT ACHIEVE IN A PRELIM YR ( for eg 1000 or so surgeries in their hands).
5 US CITIZEN/GREEN CARD WITH CARIBIEAN DEGREE /FRESH OR OLD GRADUATES
6 IMGS WITH 2 OR MORE YRS OF PRELIM/RESEARCH IN SURGERY, SOMETIMES EVEN THIS IS RISKY , NEEDS A HELL OF CONNECTIONS
7 IMGS, WITH FEW OR ONE YR USCE EXP /CURRENTLY SURGERY PGY I
BUT this all can all be reversed if you have strong luck, extremely great connection with the creator. Which I believe I didnt.
Bottom line is If you all have a chance to get into a categorical position surgery or anyother speciality grap it no matter where, what type of hospital but other wise think hundred times (not by your heart) before you make a decision to enter into prelim surgery. At the end of the day after all the efforts, you might even not be tired , will is there and even more strong but but there is no path to find or follow!!!!
Hope guys you are not discouraged with all this experience , but reality bites!!!!!!!
Good luck to all.
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* Re:General Surgery thread - nothing official about
#1058047
mahabarat - 11/21/07 07:42
Good morning surgery aspirants,
sorry for the late reply guys, i cannot agree more with MD03, he has given you the best picture of the current situation. IMGs are in the bottom block of this pyramid, although ACS has terminated pyramidal system, but i tell you pyramidal system was much better for IMGs because even the AMGs had to work hard to keep there position. Many physicians from my medical school made it to surgery in US in 90s decade because they just proved there selves better then AMGs in the same program.
Now the situation is no body fires an AMG because that leaves a very bad impression to the program. Even in my program, even after 5 months in training at least 2 of categorical AMGs dont know how to tie surgical knots but they will ultimately survive because they have alot of time to improve. Without any doubt i have seen the best of AMGs in surgery, very dynamic, hardworking and intelligent but thats 60 - 70 % of the stack and certainly not 100 %.
If you dont mind doing any other specialty then dont come to surgery as a prelim, but if surgery is your heart and soul and you would take all the risks in the world of it then its your call.
People who have to support families and have children should never accept prelim, because bachelors like me can go anywhere, do anything but with family its difficult.
Visa and immigration and research all SUCKSSSSSSSS ... only thing that works in surgery is surgical experience.
GL
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#1058051
mahabarat - 11/21/07 07:46
one more thing .... ppl say that do prelim on H1 ....
its entirely wrong, if you do prelim on H1 then you actually have 6 years for the whole training and you can do only 1 year as a prelim, but on J1 you can atleast do 2 years of prelim and you chances will be better to make it to categorical after 2 years.
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xavier - 11/21/07 10:44
Received Rejection few mins ago: New York University School of Medicine
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csverysoon - 11/21/07 11:07
If you dont mind doing any other specialty then dont come to surgery as a prelim, but if surgery is your heart and soul and you would take all the risks in the world of it then its your call.
thats mahabarat's words
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csverysoon - 11/21/07 11:09
mahabarat,
i thought once you are in H1 its relativley easy to get GC. whats your take on it mate?
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mahabarat - 11/21/07 11:52
dude GC does not make alot of difference. There are ppl who are trying to get GC in I.M now and later will try for surgery but i beleive thats not practical at all.
When you spend 3 years in medicine for a GC, you dont find enough energy left in you after that, to get into a long, nerve wrecking surgery residency. Secondly after 3-4 years do you think the competition among surgical applicants would be the same ??? absolutely not, because when there are 15-20 excellent IMG applicants competing for every categorical spot these days then after 3-4 years you can imagine.
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mahabarat - 11/21/07 11:58
90 % of 40-50 surgery programs who are known to take IMGs as categorical sponsor some kinda of a visa. These days its about competition man, every program has a moto that we are the next best program in US after 10 years and they are actually working on it. No program director wants to take a crapy GC, instead he would always prefer an excellent candidate because sponsoring visa is responsiblity of instituition and not his.
Bottom line GC makes a differnce only when the applicant himself has the iron and gold in him. Currently sitting home you guys cant even think of the true competition on the floor, ER and OR.
LUCK is essentially reqd, how good or bad you are.
Later buddy
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csverysoon - 11/21/07 12:08
mahabarat,
i was actually not making this point and i think you grossly misunderstood what i asked but thats ok.
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md03 - 11/21/07 12:42
csverysoon, I am sure Mahabarat is running between floors and ER and his computer
so to make his life a little easy, and answer your question:Yes its really easy to get GC once you r on H visa , depending if you find a job or sponsor etc
For surgery residency its not that good of a visa because as mahabart already explained the cut off 6 yrs. Until lady luck is with you and you get a categorical spot soon after your prelim.
J visa itself is a mess because you first have to find a waiver than convert it into H and then to GC, but atleast can try surgery for 7 yrs.
hope now its clear, and good luck again.
My day off today and tomorrow so any question i am on!!!!!!!!!
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yvonne - 11/21/07 13:06
md03,
hi i wanted to ask you a few things seeing that you are already a resident.
hope that's ok?
graduated in 1999, with MS in surgery, good MLE scores( >95),MRCS , 2 yrs work exp,and GC but...........
CS failed so only applying next year for residency and also 2 yrs gap in cv with nothing clinical as came to US with husband so........
what should I do in the mean time to improve my Cv seeing that I have 6 months at least.
I am really worried.
thanks.
Yvonne
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csverysoon - 11/21/07 13:21
thanks guys. appreciate your taking time off to help us.
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csverysoon - 11/21/07 14:00
guys i really have a big doubt. is it possible to sign a prematch and then break the contract if you dont want to go through it. any view will be appreciated.
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mahabarat - 11/21/07 14:22
Hey csverysoon
i was not replying to your question, rather i was making a general comment so dont take it personally, what i am trying to say is if you are thinking for surgery dude then try to get a categorical spot, dont think about the visa because H1 visa preferrence can make your goal even more difficult .... waiver issues in General surgery are not that bad as they are in medicine because now GS is a primary care specialty so waiver is not impossible to get.
Secondly now the answer to your question:
J1 (total 5 years , can be extended to 2 more years = 7 total) ---- > 2 year waiver (during this waiver your visa status is H1 ) ----> GC (only if you find a job, witout job no GC)
H1 ----> total 6 years (no extensions) -----> find a job and your employer will get you a GC
Now all the employers in US does not offer GC so even on H1 no guranteee of GC, good thing about H1 , you can visit your family anytime you want, on J1 you can meet your family once and then get J1 visa stamped again ... another big headaches for asians.
Hope this help
VERY HAPPY THANKS GIVING TO EVERYONE
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md03 - 11/21/07 14:24
Ok Yvonne, I think once you are ECFMG certified you have a good chance with all the previous experience etc. Mean while to fill in the gaps try to find an observership in an hospital that might help.
csverysoon; its a tricky question; the reason is prematch is not a legal binding in books of some. In my opinion you can break it without any legal issues because its not an NRMP/ECFMG issue but you have to play safe so the program won't recognize it as voluntary. And should not withdraw from match ( in case have to break the prematch contract).
I believe its the ethical part of it which makes people nervous that what if some one knows and wont give any interview or jobs in future, but believe me no one cares about that once you do it ahead of match so that the progam can have a chance to find another resident for their spot.......
hope this helps, but am open for suggestions.........
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yvonne - 11/21/07 14:27
thanks for the info md03-i am very worried about next year-hope you get into categorical this yr......best of luck!!! and thanks once again,
yvonne
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mahabarat - 11/21/07 14:28
Hey Md03 i am post call today, but on call again tommorow
but will have friday till sunday off .... howz that
????CSverysoon ... contract is a legal binding .... dont even think about breaking it, reason that you give is you have family problems and you cant come to US but later if they found out that the same applicant has accepted a position anywere else then it can be end of residency God forbid. If you only accept the offer but dont sign the contract then you are safe and have all the right to back off and that will be breaking a promise and not breaking a law.
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god_help_us - 11/21/07 16:56
I agree with u guys that this thread in the forum is the best and we should do a virtual party for CS..He deserves that..He has being doing daily update and providing support to all..The thread did grow and we have a lot of positive people giving serious informations regarding all this process...It is becoming more clear with the adds of md03 maha and so on....Keep continue the good work.....Congratulations CS..I am giving u my virtual drink for u to relax a bit,...Hope u match first following by all of the team members of this wonderful thread..GL
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#1059223
bidd - 11/21/07 17:11
ok guys, to be honest with you i was reading the few past posts by the expert persons like mahabart and md03 ,i did that again and again ,and as i could figure it ,the key in getting a catogorical position is to have usa surgical experiance or to be george bush's nephew or niece ,ok,so in this case let me ask the question in more direct way to be clear for all of us:IF THE PRELIM SURGERY POSITION IS THE ONLY CHANCE TO GET USA SURGICAL EXPERIANCES WITH ALL ITS VAUGE CONSEQUENCES,WOULD IT BE WORTH TO TAKE THE RISK OF THIS PRELIM POSITION KEEPING IN MIND THAT WE ARE FROM THOSE GROUP WHO SURGEY LIVE IN HIS HEART AND SOUL?thx for reply
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god_help_us - 11/21/07 17:20
bidd..
I see ur point but what will happen if u r unable to make it later...and r on j1, h1...
For years , I have been breathing only surgery..and I love surgery..As u said it is my soul but u have ur life to built up...I think, the situation is very hard..If u r young , no family responsability, u can take a chance and keep ur soul alive otherwise, u will have one day to give up and follow what will be realistic for u to do...As it said by people above, it is very risky if ur soul is all
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md03 - 11/21/07 17:29
Pranil
Ok for your questions: you are the best judge, there shouldnt be any problems with your strength part: like i am hard working, dedicated, honest etc
for the weakness you have to make it in a way so they turn out to be your strengths like I am very meticulous to an extent that my friends some time dont like it etc
Describe yourself: start from your origin , later education, personal plus and minuses , what you have achieved and gained etc
giving to the system comes back to your strengths and what you want to achieve once enters the residency.
Hope that helps.
And god_help_us very well said.
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csverysoon - 11/21/07 17:46
guys, thanks a lot for giving me a toast in the virtual world. hopefully someday we can make it real.
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anothergoljafan - 11/21/07 17:47
guys. i wanted to ask, how difficult is it to find a categorical spot after doing prelimnary spot. i have a gc. no visa issue.
or after doing PGY1 if i continue at the same PGY 2 at same hospital, how diffiicult is to get PGY 3 categorical.
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csverysoon - 11/21/07 17:57
coming to the present topic of discussion, i once read something in nelson that has just struck in my mind and never leaves my memory.
" individualization of the development of a child is the essence of pediatrics"
similarly we need to tailor everything according to our individual problems. for example bidd has gc so he doesnt need a visa. such people i think should take whatever surgery they get coz they can not be chucked out of the usa. but guys who need visa need to really analyse different specialities and other issues. another point i would like to make is that a single H1 is valid for 6 years. it does not mean that after those years, you need to leave the country. actually lot of guys just get an extension of their H1.also you can convert to GC while in your residency if you are lucky enough to do that. while with J1 you either leave or take a waiver. again its very specific for different people. i would take a H1 from a community hospital even if its preliminary than to try J1 from an university even if its categorical. coz my goals are different. i think similarly everybody should decide their own path after all this discussion. hope this helps. if there is anything wrong with my views, do let me know.
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csverysoon - 11/21/07 17:58
anothergoljanfan,
all i can say is its not easy. not a cake walk. but then getting into prelims isnt getting any easier these days.
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#1059365
god_help_us - 11/21/07 18:00
Excellet as usual...I agree with u that this matter could be solve only in a case by case basis..and seriously consider all the info in this thread and than decide what ur oal is..gL
0 - ArchivalUser - 01-10-2008
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md03 - 11/21/07 18:16
hmmm well said csverysoon BUT I tend to disagree with H visa extension. You can only extend your H visa if your GC petition is pending for more than 365 days or you have filed for GC and then waiting for I 485 decision, not on any other basis... so it comes back to the same point if you are lucky enough to find a job during your residency and the employer is ready to sponsor GC than H is ok.
Other wise switch from H to J is not a bad thought.
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kqbank - 11/21/07 18:21
hi freinds,
my views are getting reshaped now. i began with a feeling that i will only rank categoricals. but i got prelim calls from excellent programs and categorical from mediocares.
if we can't change from p to c smoothly than,......
i think after finishing prelim, we can join research on h1. and apply next year with full 1 year research and 1 year hands on usce.
if we take prelim on h1, we can always switch to j1 after 6 years limit( if nothing works out).
personally i can't see my self working at hospitals / specialties i don't like in the first place. i know we don't have much choice here but still..... i believe in calculated risk.
correct me guys if i am way off the track.
GL and happy holidays
THATS PRETTY MUCH THE DISCUSSION WE HAD ON THIS GUYS. WELL THOSE DAYS THINGS USED TO BE BUSY HERE. MISS ALL THESE. HOPE THIS HELPS.