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+--- Thread: Suggestions needed - usmlepath (/showthread.php?tid=688018)
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Suggestions needed - usmlepath - ArchivalUser - 07-14-2012
I have decent scores on Step1 and CK, bt failed CS for second time. Was really shocked. Applied again and plan to appear for CS soon to get results by oct 3rd. But how will it affect my application? Also my Step3 is gonna get delayed till i get certified. I graduated in 2011 and expecting to have 3 US LOR's by second week of aug with 3 weeks of USCE in sep at a univ. place. Do i stand a chance for this match??? Any suggestions or strategies???
0 - ArchivalUser - 07-14-2012
See its easy to explain a single fail, you can always blame it on a bad day or extenuating circumstances out of your control. But two fails makes things more difficult.
The programs do consider the whole application. But you will have to prepare to explain the two fails. I can tell you that yes it will affect your chances of IV at some programs but others might be willing to work with you.
Strategy, come up with a good explanation for your CS performance and include it in your ERAS app.
Iowa usually has good suggestions maybe iowa can give you some input here.
0 - ArchivalUser - 07-14-2012
@Peppino You have said it even better than I can.... and I appreciate your recognition.
@usmlepath adding to d good advice pepp has given u....while the 2 CS fails is big... continue your USCE.... it will result in good LORs and contacts. Also work hard on your IV skills so that you get a chance to show that your communication skills are not as poor as your CS results may suggest.
0 - ArchivalUser - 07-14-2012
Thanks alot peppino and iowa.
@peppino : I agree, iowa always comes up with best suggestions, but your input was invaluable too. Can you suggest how do i come up with a good explanation? I mean where do i need to work other than IV skills as mentioned by iowa. Also, should i expect any IV's before and after my CS results? would appearing to step3 after october help me in any way?
@iowa: Thnk u again.
Plz give your views on same Q's as above... Also, should i ask my letter writter's to comment on my comm skills in LOR???(ofcrse after being sure they will say smthng good)
0 - ArchivalUser - 07-14-2012
Ok well let me start by asking you,
Why do you think you failed CS? Did something in particular happen?
0 - ArchivalUser - 07-14-2012
First it was in data gathering as i didnt do the physical examination part thoroughly. Second time, it was communication skills. I was kinda shocked as i changed nothing in CIS part as compared to my previous attempt. Bt i accept, i didnt get tym to counsel in 2 encounters.
I did all my USCE AFTER my second attempt, and now i am very comfortable talkin with even real patients. (Also i am being suggested I MUST go for tutors and courses for CS as its impossible to pass CS after 2 attempts without any professional help... Dat scares me as its VEERRRRYYYY costly for me)
0 - ArchivalUser - 07-14-2012
Oh looks like your situation is kinda unique. These things are kinda subjective and its really hard to know what happened when you are being graded by actors who are using a checklist.
Well the thing is the CS formats have changed now, you might benefit from a course for a few reasons, to help you fix your weak areas and also help you become familiarized with the new formats.
As for how to explain CS attempts, its really up to you. Perhaps you can explain the first one to just having a bad day and not preparing adequately just a mistake of human error.
But for the 2nd attempt and
I am NOT encouraging you to lie,
BUT usually program directors are more inclined to be more understanding and forgiving if circumstances occurred that are beyond your control. I.e death in the family, accident on the way to the exam center, getting sick during your exam...
The reason why I say that is because if you were to show two attempts and cannot attribute them to anything other than inadequate prep it will seriously hurt your chances. If you can make it look like the 2nd attempt wasn't really your fault and that under normal circumstances you would have otherwise passed, then they are more likely to accept it. This is what some friends of mine told me who sit on committees today.
BUT also, keep in mind different committees have different criteria. For example the attendee that I did Surgery with HATED the CS, he felt that the CS is just another way for the ECFMG folks to make money ( I agree with him) so someone like him probably won't care about the number of attempts.
Your best bet is just to ask for advice from as many people as possible, take what I say, what Iowa says and other friends and make a sound decision based on good judgement and the help of others who shared the same experience and jumped the same hurdles.
Its good you are getting USCE, the LoRs from US attending will definitely help.
The bottom line is, just convince the committee that the struggle with CS was a thing in the past, be ready to explain it and focus on other parts of your application that are very successful. And you will have no problems with that.
0 - ArchivalUser - 07-14-2012
Presently my mental situation is such dat, nothing's helping me to calm my nerves, but your reply surely shows me a ray of hope. Thnks alot peppino. I was evn suggested that if i am plannin to apply and hope for match for coming season, then i am probably day dreaming. (S0 you can probably understand my desperation to get some appropriate and reasonable answers). Plz answer my other queries too...
0 - ArchivalUser - 07-14-2012
@iowa : waiting for your insights too
0 - ArchivalUser - 07-14-2012
Actually I wouldn't say you are day dreaming. You do have a chance at this years match and I would definitely encourage you to apply. An unsuccessful attempt at CS is not the end of the world and its not going to be what identifies you or makes you. So whoever is telling you that you are dreaming is just being negative.
If you appear for Step 3 in october it might not help for interviews but when they do get your scores they will factor that in when they rank you in feb. Having done step 3 helps the programs a lot, they dont have to worry about taking a risk with someone who might not pass step 3 and interrupt their training. And they also dont have to worry about paying for it lol.
So Step 3 taken in October will probably be of more value for programs when then are ready to rank you but not so much for getting IVs.
You are likely to get more interviews after you have shown that you passed CS. Unless you are applying to programs who don't have a stringent criteria, eg. Henry Ford Hospital or Providence Hospital in MI. Also depends on what fields you are applying for?
I know of a friend that did not pass CS and is doing preliminary Surgery in Michigan. Not really a competitive program but hey, its better than nothing.
Ask your LOR to comment on your interactions with patients in general. Bed side manners, communication, helping patients feel at ease.