Doctors Scandal - fambondi

[ArchivalUser]

Sorry typo.

The statement "I am advocating for the over reliance on history taking and anecdotes" should read:

I am NOT advocating for the over reliance on history taking and anecdotes

[ArchivalUser]

A good H&P is crucial to come to a differential. Perhaps our definition of art differs, but a H&PE is almost flow-chart like based on what the patient says. To me, art is subjective. The art is perhaps coaxing answers out of a reluctant patient. Getting a patient to reveal something he/she may have overlooked... connecting with a patient etc.

I refrain from advocating art in medicine. Medicine is becoming an incredibly objective, narrow and focused science. I think many patients would be afraid of a doctor who says "there is an art to doing this..." Patients want doctors that use stats, probabilities that predict outcomes, and straight up evidence.

[ArchivalUser]

With regards to plastic surgeons and art, I'd rather say it's a compliment

[ArchivalUser]

art - it is the skills one possesses that upon application elicits a desired output, that of which was not readily available or presentable but made so by the skills that one possesses (kasa's dictionary)

so whenever skills are used to translate a bunch of symptoms in a disease name, it be called an art. so the same with investigations. investigation by itself is a science, to translate it into diagnosis, it be an art. asking a patient questions is an art. to translate it into a diagnosis is an art. to know what question to ask is both based on science, for example, coughing comes with respiratory problem, which is a science knowledge, so questions be on the respiratory system. however when finalizing the diagnosis, that's an art. switching questions is an art. learning the constellation of things that makes up a disease is science. to know how to arrive on this disease is an art. so well it is both

[ArchivalUser]

We clearly have a difference in opinion as to what constitutes art.

I must add to your statement- "but a H&PE is almost flow-chart like based on what the patient says" AND also a good physical examination.

If you have the time, you can watch this video:

http://www.ted.com/talks/abraham_verghes...touch.html

It will help broaden your understanding of art.

Art is everywhere! :-)

[ArchivalUser]

so no one really know when one is doing the art or the science since both are interused. hypocrates uses "art".

science - it is the study of matter, how it exists in space and time and how it functions and the purpose it serves, whether it be living or non-living object (laumanu's dictionary).

and so as such, science is the knowledge, art is the skills of interusing this knolwedge. so one practicing medicine would not be able to function with just one, it be both

[ArchivalUser]

my internet is slow i cannot watch the video so i be narrow minded till i get to watch the video and that be upon when having a fast internet. they are still constructing cable to our country so until then fambondi i would remain narrow minded. unless you want to type word by word what the video says

[ArchivalUser]

qwery has driven home the point I was trying to make. Anyway, it was an interesting discourse. Medicine- an art, and a science.

[ArchivalUser]

I see your point, but for me in art there needs to be a degree of variability, creativity and uniqueness. Is it art if a programmer inputs the same code and repeatedly gets the same output? He has a skillset that you and I do not have, but for his field it is very cookie-cutter basic. The art for me would be if somebody discovers a totally unique (and better) way to achieve that output.

Much of medicine has become this also. There is the basic input and the expected (evidence-based) outputs. I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing. Perhaps it is the predictability in what we do that takes away the artistic aspect for me. We put in a great deal of work and obtained a massive amount of knowledge to get there without a doubt...

Art romanticizes it too much for me. Perhaps it is American lawsuits that scares me from such a viewpoint. Trust me mind is not barren of art - I play in a band for God's sake!

I'll watch the video later. Time for me to go practice this art.

[ArchivalUser]

well 5pani, well it is an art if the programmer inputs the same code and repeated gets the same output. this is how medicine is taught. these and these would make you think of these diseases. so this is how the skills are taught and as by definition per kasa's dictionary, it means art as well, that that is how art is taught.

however, since we are all unique in individuality basis, each have their own different touch to things. and so amongst the lot, there be a skilled artist. one that appears to have bend and mold the same skills taught in a manner that produce the same output in either efficient or cost-effective measures. skills are modified over and over, and as said, skills is the art, so that goes to say art as well is modified for the better. it may be the 18th century art, but it does good in medicine and hence history and physical examination lasted through the centuries. perfected as never before achieved by the 18th centruy medical practitioners. afterall who would want to rely on an outdated skills/art