04-27-2010, 02:22 PM
http://www.orthogate.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6428&sid=a1569ebfd8e6b3883dd870f241cb8ad5
i think they shd be mostly amgs..here is it:
Let's start a new thread for everyone to post their stats, rank list, match result, advice for future applicants, etc.
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bailey921
OSRR Newbie
Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 6
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: Non-traditional
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Congrats to those that matched! I too was lucky enough to get good news this week, and wanted to share my experience to encourage future applicants. I came from a Gen Surg program after 2+ years and attempted to switch to Ortho. It had some pluses and minuses, but worked out in the end.
Stats: Abysmal step 1, step 2; Exceptional grades; Exceptional LOR from Gen Surg; 10-12 publications + graduate school; One month on Ortho with 2 letters
Interviews offered: 2, at my Gen Surg program (Yale) and my Medical School (Jefferson)
Match result: Yale
Advice: Working with the Orthopaedics department was the most important factor I think in me matching. I got 2 letters, and was able to show how effectively I worked in the hospital. Having poor board scores definitely limited my options, so consider spending more time studying for Step 1 than I did. Always work hard and be nice to everyone, it goes a long way. Good luck next year!
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xavier
OSRR Newbie
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 8
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:58 pm Post subject: ROL
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I found these lists helpful, so now that I'm done, I'll contribute:
Med School: Top 25 private
Boards: Step I: 242, Step II: 257 (took in june, before my AIs, submitted)
Rank: no class rank at my school
AOA: nope
Clinical Grades: Honors: Gen surg, medicine, ob/gyn. High Pass: psych, fam med, peds, neuro
Ortho Sub-I x2: Did home rotation and 1 away (Miami), received Honors at 1, HP at the other. I thought the HP in my subI meant I was screwed, but read on...
Research: Molecular bench research done throughout undergad and med school, not orthopaedic at all, mostly oncology research... frequently asked about oddly enough; 1 publication from undergrad, 2 presentations
Letters: 1 ortho attending, 1 chairmen from home prog, 1 from PhD from my lab, 1 from a huge name that I was lucky to meet and have offer to write me a letter (this letter was mentioned frequently at interviews)
Thanks you letters sent: 0
Applied: 45
Offered: 15
Attended: 14 (because of scheduling)
Ranked: 15 (5+6 at one program)
1. Emory - Wonderful, well balanced program, great trauma, nice weather
2. Brown - fantastic program, one of the best in the country IMO, great trauma exp as well, undeniable research powerhouse, very academic focus, on the ocean
3. Miami - Solid program overall, rotated here, residents were great, got along well, fantastic trauma, nice weather AND near the ocean
4. U. of Virginia - extremely solid in every area, anyone would be lucky to train here, charlottesville is very nice
5. Mount Carmel - smallish program at 2/yr, but these guys are well trained and happy, a sometimes rare combination
6. Ohio State - rebuilding, but once they're rebuilt, look out, the hospital is throwing a lot of money at this dept., they will be a powerhouse
7. U. of Arizona - Some great personalities here, would have enjoyed this place a lot I think, more sunshine here than just about anywhere
8. Case Western - Should be higher on anyones list honestly, some fantastic people there, a real ortho powerhouse, everything you could want is there, great opportunities. cleveland didn't really do it for me
9. Kalamazoo-MSU - similar to mount carmel IMO, very happy, well trained residents coming out of this place
10. Med. College Wisc.
11. Akron General
12. U. Toledo
13. Wright State
14. Hamot
15. Virginia - 6 yr
Ok, I'm tired of writing about each program.
I think it's important to think about both the program and the location, as you can see from my descriptions. Sunshine and oceans are important to me, so they affected my rank list.
For future applicants: Control the things you can. Kill your usmle exams, because you can. You aren't always going to get honors, even if you earned them. AOA is a subjective gift, not an objective assessment, don't expect it, or care if you don't get it.
Away rotations? Some say this is key, but I only did one. It's good to see other programs to see what you like, but honestly, after my interviews, it became clear that each program was quite similar. So your call as to how important it is. My away was exhausting and expensive, and I'm glad I only did one.
The interview process is random. I didn't get offers from some "backups" (which do not exist in ortho), and received offers from places I had no connection with. I have friends who did not match ortho or were offered very few interviews. Apply broadly to increase your interview offers.
I matched within my top 4. PM for any details or questions. Hope this helps all the future ortho apps.
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Jake Da Snake
OSRR Intern
Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 33
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject:
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I am a guy with a family looking for a balanced program in an affordable and livable city. I suspect I will be a community orthopaedic surgeon and not an academician so operative/clinical experience was slightly more important to me than being able to perform research with big names.
Med School: Top 10 in the west
Boards:
- Step I: 242
- Step II: 247 took early because of school requirement and was on ERAS
Rank: no official ranking, but probably top 50%
AOA: no
Clinical Grades:
- Honors in Gen surg, OB/GYN, and two ortho rotations
- High Pass: Medicine, Psych, Family Medicine, Pediatrics
Ortho Sub-I: Completed one at my home institution and one away.
Research: two pubs from undergrad in unrelated field with some presentations, one ortho project in med school with an abstract and presentation.
Letters: 1 from ortho research advisor, 1 from home sub-I, 1 from away sub-I, and 1 from gen surg faculty who knew me well.
Extracurriculars: nothing special, background in carpentry
Applied: 54
Offered: 9. These were pretty random with no regionalism to them. Three of them (my top 3) came directly (I suspect) from either an away rotation or connections with letter writers and current residents from my school.
Attended: 8, one of them was really late and with short notice and couldn't make it.
Ranked: 9 (5+6 at one program)
note: each of my top three could have easily been #1 and each spent some time at the top. I would have been happy almost anywhere on my list. it came down to overall feel of program, family situation, and community.
My top three in no particular order:
Penn State (Hershey): I really loved this place. I liked the people I met, I loved town of Hershey, call me weird but I liked that there was trauma 1 center with a forest behind and open field in front. My wife enjoyed the town as well. Well balanced program with great residents, faculty, and program leadership. I would recommend this program to anybody with a family who wants a great ortho training experience in a rural setting.
University of Rochester: I cannot say enough good things about this program. I spent a month there and when I was making my rank list I kept coming back to how impressed I was with the residents. The chief residents especially were very knowledgeable and confident. They made decisive and confident decisions in clinic and were comfortable in the OR. they seemed like jr. attendings to me and I learned a lot from them. They are very balanced with tons of researchand well known faculty with a great operative experience. There is a great review on these forums written by a chief resident that I think is very accurate. As a family guy, I liked the town, but its not for everybody. Housing is cheap but property taxes are high.
University of Kentucky (Lexington): matched here I didn't know alot aboutthis place when I interviewed there but was very excited because mywife has family nearby. I liked what I heard and saw on interview day and feel like this is a great program that turns out good surgeons. I was also impressed with the senior residents I interviewed with. The residents seemed to have fun while working and I thought I would fit in. I wrote what I know about the program in these forums and don't know much else about it. The community of Lexington and the cost of living was a huge draw for me as well the fact that there is family nearby for my wife and kids. I matched here and feel extremely forunate to have done so.
The rest in no particular order:
University of Nebraska: I liked this place as well. what impressed me the most was how resident focused they were and how early they get the residents operating. it seemed to me that they will try to get the 1st or 2nd year doing some bread and butter trauma cases if at all possible. They also have a nice biomechanics lab with a very enthusiastic research director. You could get very involved, but some residents don't set foot in there, so it depends on your motivation. Lifestyle seemed nice with cheap cost of living, relatively high salary (48-49K i think), and home call most of the years.
University of Kansas (Kansas City, KS): nice residents and faculty. I think you interview with every faculty on staff! large operative volume. I wasn't able to make it to the pre-interview reception and was in and out of the city so didn't get a good feel for kansas city, but it felt a little big for my style.
Toledo: Would have been happy here. downside was the 4month away at U of Kentucky. its a good experience to be sure, but being a family man I had to put it lower on my list.
University of South Carolina: Small group of dedicated and friendly faculty, good operative experience, good residents. 4 month away rotation was a negative.
Case Western: lots of good things about this program, but it wasn't for me. they stated that there mission was NOT to train community orthopaedic surgeons but to produce the surgeons behind the podium. the 6th year "lottery" was a turn off for me. it rubbed me the wrong way as I placed more value on operative experience than academics and research. Cleveland was a little too big for my family (we like small towns)
Congrats to all who matched, good luck to all those that didn't and the upcoming applicants. Please contact me with questions about any of the programs especially UK as I will be more acquainted with the program in a few short months.
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Schooner
OSRR Newbie
Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 9
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:24 pm Post subject:
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Med School: Top 20 private
Boards: Step I: 241, Step II: 257
No class rank or AOA at my school
Clinical Grades: Mostly Honors with a couple high passes.
Ortho Sub-I x2: Did one at my home school and one away. Honors on both. Solid letters from both.
Research: 12 ortho publications and abstracts
Thanks you letters sent: 0
Applied in couple match
Applied: 25
Offered: 20
Attended: 12
Ranked: 11 - I had to not rank one where I interviewed because of issues with couples match
Rank List:
Brown - Loved this program. Have to like the 6th year trauma fellowship. Providence is surprisingly nice. The residents and faculty seem great.
Duke - amazing interview day. I think they ask too much from their applicants though. They want you to come back for a week long 2nd look and make the "You're my number one" call. Kind of a turn off for me. Resident their seemed really happy though and the location is phenomenal.
Georgetown - Seemed like a good program. I would have been happy here, but I didn't want to be in DC.
Harvard - Love Boston. Program is huge and very spread out. Residents seem happy. Obviously there is the question of operative experience with all of the fellows. I think this is probably overblown but since I did not do a rotation there its hard to tell. Ended up ranking Harvard very high for personal/location reasons.
HSS - Obviously a great name place. Residents quality of life is unmatched in the city. Nothing bad to say about this except my fiancee hates New York.
Miami - South beach and lots of plastic surgery in bikinis...I had a great time here. Might help to learn spanish before going there though...
NYU - Big program in new york city. As you can see from above I ranked this low because of location. I liked the residents I met.
UNC - If you want to do private practice this might be one of the best places to train in the country. The faculty is all about teaching and although they dont have the biggest names as some of the big academic programs you will get amazing training here. Chapel Hill is great...especially if you're single
UPenn - New chairman looks like he'll do good things for the department. I love philly. Residents seem awesome and very happy. This was also very high on my list.
UPitt - Huge name place. Pittsburgh was impressive. Sports complex is a shrine to Dr. Fu. Something about it didn't work for me, but the people there are very happy and seem to enjoy it. They are hands on with a lot of post-match communication.
Vanderbilt - This program rules. I cant say enough good things about it. 2nd year is really tough, but I loved the residents and program. Check this out and think about it really seriously.
Yale - This was my first interview and it really impressed...New Haven leaves something to be desired but the program is phenomenal. The residents here are some of the happiest and best trained of any place I saw and they go on to get fantastic fellowships.
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bonepain
OSRR Newbie
Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 1
Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:16 am Post subject: Stats
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Med School: Top 25 private
Boards: Step I: 252, Step II: 245 (took in November, did not care)
Bench Press: 10x225
Rank: Top 15%
AOA: hahaha...no one cares
Clinical Grades: Honors: Surgery, Medicine, Neuro, Peds, Rads, Ortho. High Pass: psych, fam med,
Ortho: Home and 2 aways
Research/Extra: 2 pubs in basic science from undergrad, lots of Ortho stuff
Letters: Chair, 2 ortho attendings,
Thanks you letters sent: 0
Applied: 40
Offered: 20
Attended: 18
Ranked: 15
Matched at #1...
When I began looking I wanted to go the best program (name, power, prestige, etc) but then I realized I fit in much better with typical Ortho jocks than the types at the super academic programs. I wanted a workhorse type program with normal guys. Every program I interviewed at had great things about it, but every program had a "feel" from resident interactions/socials/seeing the types of interviewees. That was huge for me. Put your head down, work hard, be normal and you will match.
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calvinNhobbes
OSRR Fellow
Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 222
Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:42 am Post subject:
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Reapplicant following a research year.
Med School: Top 40 Private
Boards: Step 1: 230s, Step 2: 240s
Rank: No class rank, but about top 1/3 by GPA I think
AOA: Nope
Clinical Grades: All Honors except High Pass in Psych and OB/GYN
Sub-I x2: Home program and one away. Didn™t do any additional Sub-Is during research year.
Research: 20+ publications, abstracts, presentations, most ortho, including 5 submitted/accepted ortho papers from my research year.
Letters: 1 home chair, 1 home PD, 1 home attending, 1 research chair, 1 research PhD, 1 non-ortho letter. I only sent programs that requested a chair letter my home chair letter because that one was probably the least personal (although I don™t know that for sure). The non-ortho letter only went to those programs that specifically asked for it (UCSF, Tufts, and maybe a few others).
Other stuff: College athlete
Applied: 140
Offered: 42
Attended: 17 (UAB, U Conn, Yale, Emory, AMC, Hopkins, Wash U, NYU-HJD, Rochester, Cleveland Clinic, Case, Brown, MUSC, Orlando, New Mexico, Mizzou, and Wayne St)
Canceled: 25 (UCSF, UCLA, USC, Harbor, Kentucky, Dartmouth, Stony Brook, Cincinnati, Ohio St, WVU, MCW, Shreveport, DMC, Grand Rapids, Seton Hall, Albany, Downstate, LIJ, Lenox Hill, Upstate, Wright St, St. Luke™s, Hamot, JPS, and Marshall)
Most cancellations were due to date conflicts, but 5-6 were cancelled because I was simply burnt out.
Ranked 17: Did not rank one program, ranked one 6-year research track.
Rank criteria: want to do academics (ie. research/reputation), location (near family), cost of living (afford single family home), operative experience (broad exposure, early operative experience), lifestyle (prefer night float), rotations (prefer no away rotations, minimal clinical sites), felt like my personality fit well with faculty and residents, collegial attitude between residents and faculty.
Ranked alphabetical by tiers:
Tier 1: Programs with strong academic reputations, mostly in locations close to family and reasonable cost of living, with good operative experience.
Brown: The biggest drawback for most is it™s a 6-year program, but since I like research and want to do academics it was a plus. Moreover, Brown is different from most 6-year programs. You do not do a full research year between your junior years, but 6 months of a mini-trauma fellowship and 6 months of research at the end. Also, you get paid more like a part time attending during this fellow year than as a resident. The faculty and residents seemed very laid back and collegial towards each others. Well organized and faculty run didactics. Good location for me, reasonable cost of living for NE. No night float and residents said intern and PGY-2 year pretty rough with not much operative time to offset the pain.
Emory: Really seemed to fit in well with the residents and faculty. The operative experience at Emory sounds amazing. Interns do all their call during the year with ortho at Grady, meaning an impressive amount of OR time as an intern and even more as a PGY-2. The lifestyle seems pretty rough for the first couple years since most of it is at Grady, but at least you get to operate a ton. Later years have a better lifestyle with mostly home call. Atlanta is an affordable city with great weather, near family and friends. Apparently starting up a research collaboration with GaTech for mechanical and biomedical engineering projects which is awesome. The only real downside to Emory is they have many clinical sites spread around the city, which can be a pain with traffic. However, this is only for a couple specialty rotations with most time being at Grady or the Emory Ortho hospital.
Rochester: Number one NIH funded ortho department. A night float type call. Didn™t get a good idea if I fit in very well with the residents during my interview, but I was amazed at all the faculty just hanging out and chatting with applicants. Rochester weather sucks, but I have family in the area. Lots of volume, every specialty covered, only have to spilt time between a few clinical sites that are very close to each other. Very affordable and family friendly city.
Wash U: I™ll be honest, Wash U is up here because it™s Wash U and I pretty much knew I had no shot to match here (I requested email feedback and was not œhighly competitive). Obviously an awesome program. Has night float, every specialty, mostly centralized clinical campus, no away rotations, great didactics run by faculty. But I have no family or friends anywhere near by. I actually really liked St. Louis, good size city, affordable, family friendly, and weather pretty good for Midwest. The interviews were definitely intense, and didn™t really get a sense of how the faculty or residents interacted with each other. The residents were very nice, but I felt I was too politically incorrect to fit in well. Not to be sexist, but it could really have just been that I was unused to being around a program with so many women.
Yale: One of my biggest surprises of the season. Some of the happiest residents I met. Sound like they get great operative experience early as an intern and PGY-2 while also having tons of dedicated research time (2.5 months as a 3, 4, and 5). Good mix of faculty experience. Every specialty covered, but you do have one joint rotation about an hour away. Also spend a good chunk of intern year at a different clinical site 30+ min away. New Haven was a really the biggest minus. Cost of living not too bad, but no international airport would really suck for my wife™s family that would need to fly to visit.
Tier 2: Either less academic programs with a great operative experience in goof locations, or great academic programs with something missing.
AMC: Good location (see Emory above). Awesome operative experience with great trauma experience at main hospital and then community rotations with the best private guys in Atlanta including numerous physicians of the pro teams. Also rotations with Emory for tumor and possibly spine and trauma. The residents were real laid back with each other and the faculty. Nice new bioskills labs. The main drawback was the lack of research and academic reputation. However, it sounds like effort is being made to improve this.
Cleveland Clinic: Amazing program, really liked the faculty and residents I met, great academic reputation and research, but the two things that knocked it down were Cleveland (no friends/family) and the lack of trauma. I also didn™t like how many clinical sites you rotate through including 45+ min away for peds.
Orlando: Felt very similar to AMC. Good location, close to family and friends, good weather, and Disney World for the kids. But like AMC, not much research going on which they are also trying to establish with UCF.
Rochester 6-year: All the same as above, but an extra year of research. Don™t really want to spend another year just on research but would rather spend an extra year at a program in a location I want to be at than some of the programs further down the list.
U Conn: Close to family and friends in NE. Sounds like they have a pretty good lifestyle with a lot of mid-level support (no weekday call, covered by PAs!). Awesome bioskills and wetlab space. Seem to have a lot of research money with new faculty coming in. I met almost every residents during the social and interview day. I think it shows a lot if a program can basically give their residents an entire day off just to hang out with applicants. Hartford seemed okay.
Tier 3: Mostly big name places in locations I™d prefer not to be.
Case: Great name, great operative experience. Just felt most of the residents were not happy being in Cleveland.
Hopkins: I™ve been to Baltimore many times, and for some reason I just don™t want to live there. All the faculty and residents were very nice, but I had concerns about the operative experience, especially in trauma and the Shock rotation being dropped.
Mizzou: I think the attendings were the most down to earth and nicest I met. However, I didn™t feel like I fit in well with the residents. Moreover, I did not want to be in a college town and the program is going through a lot of changes.
NYU-HJD: Awesome name and research, Zuckerman is the man, the residents I met were cool, but there are so many of them I felt I barely grazed the surface. It just would have been a huge sacrifice of lifestyle trying to live in NYC. If I was 5 years younger and without kids, it would have definitely been in my Tier 1.
UAB: Good location near family and friends, I just didn™t feel I fit in with the residents and faculty. Plus there seems to have been a lot of faculty leaving recently, so that made me a little wary. But known as a strong program with great operative experience. Birmingham seemed like a very affordable and family friendly city.
Tier 4: Told me I was not a good fit for them, so
MUSC: Some faculty and residents said I wouldn™t fit in because I wanted to do academics. Honestly, I was not impressed and almost didn™t rank them. But I figured spending 5 years in Charleston would be better than not matching.
New Mexico: Was told by PD I was too academic. Not sure why they invited me for an interview, but at least I got to eat some good food while there.
Not ranked:
Wayne St: New program, weird interview day (no tour, no social, only met a couple residents and faculty), decided I™d rather not match than live in Detriot.
I matched in my Tier 1 and am absolutely ecstatic!
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OrthoQB
OSRR Newbie
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 1
Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:28 pm Post subject:
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I'll preface this post by saying that I have a family, and I was looking for a program with great operative experience in a family friendly city. I didn't apply to any of the "big name" programs.
Med School: Midwest Program known for primary care
Step 1: 241
Step 2: Took last week
AOA: Yes
Clinical Grades: All A's (no honors at my school)
Sub-I's: 1 at home, 1 away. Three 2nd looks
Research: 1 ongoing project, no pubs
Letters: 2 ortho attendings, 1 non ortho attending. All were from my home program, and none were big names.
Other: Former college football player
Applied: 63
Offered: 14
Attended: 11
Tier 1(in no particular order): I felt great at all of these programs. All of these could have been number 1 on my list. Location was the ultimate determinant for the exact rank of these programs.
Toledo: Great facilities and great residents. The attendings that I met seemed very approachable. I was also impressed by the number of publications that the attendings churn out. The residents here seemed to operate early and often. I liked the city and the surrounding area, because it is great for a family. All of the subspecialties are covered besides peds. The only downside to this program is the fact that you have to do your peds rotation away from Toledo.
Hamot: Residents take 10 months of ortho call during the intern year. The chairman was a great guy, but some of the other attendings didn't seem as personable. Good bread and butter ortho and great peds experience. The residents all seemed nice, but the atmosphere seemed somewhat "cultish." I felt like they were trying too hard to convince me that Erie didn't suck. Erie seemed like a great place during the late spring and summer with beaches and lots of festivals. However, the winter months seemed pretty dreary.
UT-Chattanooga: All of the residents were normal guys that were fun to spend time with. Great trauma and sports experience. Peds experience seemed pretty weak. Chattanooga is a great city with affordable housing. There are lots of things to do in Chattanooga. The only downside to this program is that they are going to be getting a new chairman. I was unsure as to what direction the program would go with the new chairman. I never met him, but heard he was an outstanding guy by all accounts.
Mt. Carmel: Ultimate country club program. Home call and prolific moonlighting opportunity. Good bread and butter general ortho. Some subspecialties like sports seemed weak. The chairman was the nicest guy I met on the interview trail. The younger residents and the 5th years all seemed like great guys. Some of the 3rd and 4th years didn't seem so great. Columbus is a nice city with lots of things to do.
Tier 2: I would have been ok if I matched at these programs, but not thrilled.
Campbell Clinic: This was an amazing program with great operative experience and research opportunities if wanted. You would be well trained here in all aspects of ortho. The program was a little big for me, and Memphis isn't the safest city for a family.
Marshall: Spent a considerable amount of time at this program because it is pretty local. The residents are all great guys. They are good in the OR, and they are good people. All of the attendings were great, besides the chairman. I got the impression that he is a pretty fake and cocky guy. In addition, he only trains you to do computer navigated knee replacements. He does 0 jig based TKA's. I never felt like he was telling the truth when I talked to him. This seemed to be the impression of the other guys I talked to that rotated there. I think this is a pretty new program, but you would be well trained here.
St. Luke's; Bethlehem, PA: I enjoyed my interview here. The chairman and the other attendings were great. I didn't care much for Bethlehem, but the hospital was impressive. It scared me a little bit that this was a new program with only 1 class of residents.
UK: I love Lexington, and I was looking forward to this interview. The interview as quite weird with Dr. Wright, and the chairman seemed to really love himself. The other attendings were nice guys. I didn't talk much to the residents, so I don't know about them. Sports and trauma seemed to be strongpoints. Peds is also strong here, because there is a Shriner's Hospital in Lexington.
VCU: The residents seemed pretty overworked and tired. They didn't seem to be a cohesive group. All subspecialties are covered and training seemed to be good here. The residents said that you wouldn't seem much OR time until you were a PGY-3. This was a major turnoff to me. Richmond was a decent city. I may have liked it more if I would have explored more of it.
Tier 3: Would have been scared to match at these places.
UIC: The program was great, but Chicago just isn't a good fit for me or my family. If this program was in a smaller city or if I were single, it may have been number 1 on my list. The attendings seemed great. Operative experience here was good too. Seemed to be a good mix of residents. They are on probation, but I suspect that that will be lifted soon.
LSU-Shreveport: One of the residents at the social told the group I was with that we shouldn't consider going there. They are understaffed and on probation because of it. Few subspecialties are covered. Shreveport seemed like an ok city, but I just didn't have a good feeling when I left here. They just hired a new chairman from Baylor, so things may be looking up.
I matched in my first tier and am excited to get started. Good luck to everyone who goes through this process next year.
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mdwstms
OSRR Intern
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 36
Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:54 pm Post subject:
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Med School: midwest
Boards: Step I: 255, Step II: did not have when applied
AOA: yes, junior aoa
Clinical Grades: Honors: medicine, ob/gyn, psych, peds, ER, neuro, 2 home orthos, one away ortho.
High Pass: gen surg
Research: 6 gen surg papers, 1 ortho paper submitted, 2 gen surg talks, 6+abstracts
Letters: very good letters, so i was told; 2 from away rotation, 4 from home program, 1 from medicine chairman at school (used when asked for non-ortho only), mixed and matched letters based on region and where the writer knew people --> RESIDENTS are one key to getting good letters, get them on yourside, then ask them who would write you a good letter, and then you ask the writer and the residnets usually tell the writer that you were good etc.
Thanks you letters sent: emails sent to programs that i wanted to go to shortly after the interview - only sent to chairman and PD, though, and residents I got to know.
Other: anatomy TA, international work (2x trips), fluent in spanish, D1 college athlete, captain
--applied to 40
--got 25 interviews (random, kinda based on region: where I went to school and where did away, and top programs outside of region).
--went on 11 interviews (knew I was a good/almost sure shot at home program and where I rotated)
--1 revisit to program I wanted to go to(not sure if this helped, but am certain that it did not hurt)
--5 phone calls from programs saying I was either ranked to match or they really liked me and would love to have me.
matched at #1, academic program w solid op experience, good trauma, and international research/work opportunities (which turned out not to be home program or where I rotated, but close/same region as where I rotated --> letters from away really helped this I think - and my interests were same as the goal of the program I wanted to go to, which I think really helped, and I think I had a solid interview)
Other advice - choose the programs you interview at carefully. my favorite program was the 3rd to last program I interviewed at and all programs seemed to pale in comparison and I wished I would have chosen more carefully, or at least thought about it more.
Advice for 1st/2nd year students (quoting someone I saw write this).....
----stop ready orthogate and start studying for Step 1 or your classes, it really does make your life much easier and opens so many doors if you do well (and gives you a great deal of confidence, and a leg up in preparing for shelves, which I think helped me do well in rotations)
PLEASE DO NOT JUST READ THIS......POST, esp average applicants that were successful/unsuccessful to give hope to current/future average applicants......AND, let them know what you did (or which you would have done, or might have done wrong) that gave you a foot up and helped you match!!!! Thanks
Good luck to all future applicants and congrats to all those that matched, to those that didn't, keep your head up and follow your heart and guts.
p.m. if you have any questions, I promise to respond.....any questions at all.
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ROL_2010
OSRR Intern
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 46
Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject:
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Med School: state school
Boards: Step 1/Step 2: 250ish
Rank: Top 5%
AOA: Senior
Clinical Grades: All A's
Research: 1 poster presentation, 1 case report, 1 grant (all in another field)
Letters: Home chair, PD, 1 other home letter, 1 away rotation letter
Applied: 60 something
Offered: 30 something
Attended (in order): Emory, Hopkins, AMC, Mayo, UT-Chattanooga, Duke, VCU, Oklahoma, USF, UAB, Louisville, UTSW, Baylor, UNC, Campbell Clinic, University of Washington, Florida, Vanderbilt.
Offered but didn't attend (notable): CMC, Greenville
Ranked: 18 + 1 research spot
Rank criteria: academics (ie. research/reputation to get a great fellowship), operative experience (broad exposure, early operative experience), location (near family), cost of living (afford single family home), good trauma exposure, felt like my personality fit well with faculty and residents, collegial attitude between residents and faculty.
Ranked alphabetical by tiers:
Tier 1A:
Campbell Clinic - ( my #1 and matched here) This program fit exactly what I was looking for in a program (see above criteria) and was my number one choice. Great group of guys that get along well together. Incredible operative experience. Great balance between busy trauma experience at the med and the private patients at the Campbell Clinic. Every subspecialty is well-covered. For next year's applicants, I would highly suggest rotating here as you will get to work with some big names in the field and have a great time. Also, not much is expected of you during your rotation. Basically you show up to scrub in, know anatomy, and do clinic with the attendings. No pre-rounds, rounds, etc. Very laid back rotation for a top-tier program
Vanderbilt - another great program. Residents were genuinely happy and well taken care of. Historically great in trauma and tumor. Some recent faculty turnover was somewhat concerning to me. Not a lot of joints attendings, but has a joints fellowship... Would have loved to have matched here as well (my number 2).
Emory - Felt like this program was very similar to the Campbell Clinic in a lot of ways with the balance between Grady and the private Emory ortho pts. PD was a lot of fun. Residents seemed really happy. Location is fantastic, but expensive as a resident.
Tier 1B: Academic programs with excellent reputations that had only minor issues (location or otherwise).
Mayo Clinic - This place pretty much blew me away. The residents are very happy and well taken care of and you get to operate one-on-one with leaders in the field. Unbelievable facilities. Great low cost of living. My only beef with it was the lack of a high volume trauma experience. I think you get enough bread and butter stuff though and what it lacks in trauma it makes up for in almost every other specialty. Sports also a relative weakness per the residents. Honestly, this would have been my number 2 if not for my wife's geographical preferences.
Florida - Really impressed by this program. Dr. Scarborough is great and the department is probably the most well-funded one I saw outside of Mayo. Oncology is unmatched. Great facilities and a brand new hospital. Residents were cool, loved the location. Only downside was the addition of a trauma fellow to an already light trauma load (per students that rotated here).
University of Washington - Great program that met all my criteria for a great residency program (see above). Well balanced with well known attendings in every field. Loved the location personally, but far from family. Trauma experience is great, but there are a lot of fellows. I think they have more than enough volume to handle it though.
UTSW - Excellent southern program with a great reputation in an awesome city. Very good trauma experience, but you never truly escape from trauma. Kind of weak in hand. Great residents that worked hard (especially 2nd year). Had an interesting night float system that I personally liked.
Tier 2:
UAB - Another excellent, hard-working program in the south. Really liked this program, but didn't feel like I got a good feel for how it was on interview day as I missed the pre-interview dinner and had very limited interactions with the residents on interview day.
Wake Forest - Truly under-rated program. Excellent didactics, ample operative experience, incredible research support. Hand and upper extremity is unmatched. Overall great residents, but a few weren't as easy to get along with as others. Affordable city that I saw as a real positive being close to the mountains and not too far from the beach.
Johns Hopkins - Kind of underwhelming considering the name. Got the impression that operative experience wasn't the best, but that you could land a great fellowship coming out of here. Great peds and upper extremity. Trauma was questionable as they no longer rotate at Shock. Tradition was really impressive. Baltimore was a negative for me.
Tier 3:
UNC - I think this place has a better lifestyle than any other place I saw, maybe too good. Mentor training style has unique advantages and disadvantages, and honestly I saw them working a lot better at the Mayo Clinic. Trauma seemed very light as they go rotate at Wake Med (not Wake Forest) for a private practice trauma experience. Location was a big plus for me.
Louisville - A truly under-rated program with great trauma, joints, hand, and spine. Sports is a relative weakness. Great group of residents that get along well together. Didactics are mostly resident-run and were not a problem in my eyes. Chair was stepping down. Very fun and affordable city. Great place to rotate if you are looking for an under-the-radar sort of place that doesn't get a ton of rotators.
Duke - They really do a great job of selling this place on interview day. The residents put together a great picture of the program and make you want to go there while you're there. However, the whole overdone recruiting effort was really off-putting for me. One of my friends went back for a second look and thought the operative experience was lacking. Great reputation. Great location.
USF - Program on the rise. PD is a real asset to the program. Great lifestyle. Cool group of residents and excellent location. Would get to work with some big names at FOI while you're here. Location is a huge plus. I would have liked to see them have a more involved experience at Tampa General for trauma.
Baylor
Oklahoma
UT Chattanooga
AMC
VCU
I would have been extremely happy to have matched almost anywhere on my list. I am so excited and feel very fortunate to be going to my first choice. This whole process was expensive and somewhat exhausting, but I met a lot of cool guys on the trail that I will keep in touch with and honestly had a lot of fun. Just be yourself and ignore a lot of the BS you hear on this forum and from other applicants blowing smoke. Also understand that there is no such thing as "the best" program. Everybody has different priorities and goals and will be attracted to different programs accordingly.
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THRA
OSRR Newbie
Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Posts: 3
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:30 am Post subject:
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all the inputs so far are great. it will be kind of others to send in ur match details or profile.
it would also be interesting to see some profiles who did not match and why?
thanks
THRA
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thatswhatshesaid
OSRR Junior
Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 60
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:15 am Post subject:
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I would say that this thread pretty accurately represents this year's applicant pool so we should just close it and make it a sticky now.
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TexOrtho
OSRR Junior
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 62
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:06 pm Post subject: No match
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Heys guys, I did not match but do not know why.
Step1 260 step 2 267
AOA
no ortho research
18 interviews with 20 ranks (6 yr tracks)
I felt like I had great interviews but I guess not
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ROL_2010
OSRR Intern
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 46
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:58 pm Post subject:
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Med School: State school
Boards: Step 1: 250+/Step 2: Taken late and not available for ERAS
Rank: No œofficial class rank, but top 10%
AOA: Yes
Clinical Grades: All Honors except for peds
Ortho Sub-I: Home program + 2 aways. Honors in all three.
Research: A few ortho projects, 0 publications
Letters: Probably one of the greatest strengths of my application. 1 home ortho chair, 1 well-known ortho mentor, 1 ortho research, and 1 ortho away. My letters were brought up and commented on how impressive they were at almost every interview.
Applied: 50+ - I know, some will say that™s too many but I looked at the application process as an investment in the rest of career, so I thought the few hundred extra $$$ was just a small drop in the bucket in the long run. Remember, it™s much better to have too many interviews than not enough!
Offered: 30+
Attended: 17 “ Again, it™s better to be able to pick and choose which interviews you really want to attend. Went in initially with the mindset that I would attend as many as possible in order to look at the different programs plus I enjoy traveling, but by the end of December I was exhausted and cancelled 6-8 interviews that were scheduled in January that I wasn™t highly interested in anyways.
Ranked: 16
Post-Interview Contact: I was told by 5 programs I was ranked in their top X (with X being the number of spots in the PGY-1 class)
Additional Advice: Once you submit your application, make an Excel spreadsheet with the names of the programs and their interview dates if you can find them (either posted on their website, or you can email/call the program coordinator). This will allow you to pick the dates with the least amount of overlap and minimize scheduling conflicts. Also, have a phone with email access that will allow you to respond immediately to interview offers. There are typically only 2-3 dates available for each program and the desirable ones fill up extremely fast.
What was I looking for in a program? I wanted to go to a program that offered a great operative experience, covered all subspecialties (breadth, depth), had a strong reputation and fellowship placement track record, good opportunities for research, a low cost of living, and residents/attendings that were fun to be around (collegial). Balance between operative experience and academics was a key thing that I looked for, because I preferred a program that didn™t sacrifice either one too much. Extras included location (smaller city or town) and, if possible, warm weather.
Programs Ranked Alphabetically by Tiers:
Tier 1:
Duke “ A strong program that provides great subspecialty coverage and has good depth within each field. The interview day was one of the best I saw, and everyone there (including the residents) will basically have your application memorized and know everything about you. They seem genuinely interested in getting to know you and are very proud of their program. They have night float if that is what you are looking for and Durham offers a good quality of living with warm weather.
Iowa “ I heard from a number of people even before my interview that this was a great program. It has a strong tradition and their Chair (Dr. Buckwalter) is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. They have a ton of research opportunities and are one of the top in the nation in terms of academic production. With that being said, I feel you also receive a great operative experience and overall it was a well-balanced program. I actually really liked Iowa City as it is a Big Ten college town and would be a good place to live whether you are single or have a family. However, if you want to live in a big city this program is probably not for you.
Mayo “ Well, it™s The Mayo Clinic. Their facilities are amazing and if you are interested in research you will have every opportunity imaginable. They have a preceptorship-type model where you work one-on-one with an attending vs. a standard team-based model. Whether this is good or bad depends on what you are looking for. Personally, I like the team-based model better, but at Mayo you are working very closely with world leaders in the field. One of the biggest drawbacks for me was the location. Rochester is far from my family and can get very cold. However, it is affordable and if you have a family you will be able to easily get a nice house.
Vanderbilt “ This is a strong program in an awesome location. Every subspecialty is covered and the residents are a great group of people. If offers one of the best operative experiences I have seen if that is what you are looking for. Also has a good variety of research opportunities available, making it another well-balanced program. You really can™t find a better location to live than Nashville as it offers most amenities/entertainment/restaurants/bars/etc. as a larger city, yet it is still affordable and has a high quality of living if you have a family. Oh, and warm weather is always a plus.
Tier 2:
Harvard “ Another top program that will get you wherever you want to go in your career. Tons of research opportunities, great facilities, attendings are leaders in the field, and the program has a very strong tradition. Although every subspecialty is covered very well and the depth is outstanding, I felt that as a resident your operative experience was limited in comparison to some of the other programs I saw. The only other drawback for me besides limited early operative experience was location, as I did not want to live in a huge city. A lot of people love Boston, so if you are looking for a top program in a large city and want to pursue academic medicine you should definitely check it out.
Utah “ In my opinion, this is one of the best programs in the West. Word is getting out about how great of a place this is so it™s getting more and more competitive every year. Great balance between operative experience and academics, and their facilities are top notch. Everyone I met on interview day was nice and it seemed like a good group of people. If you are into the outdoors, I don™t think you will find a better location than this.
Wash-U St. Louis “ This program was impressive. They have great facilities, a good balance between academics and OR experience, deep coverage in every subspecialty, and a night float system. Although they have quite a few fellows, I didn™t get the sense that they stole many cases from the residents. The Chair and PD emphasized the importance of resident education, which I believed. Oh, and their didactics were one of the most comprehensive and organized that I have seen. The interview day, however, was more œstuffy than others and I got the impression that there wasn™t as much of a collegial relationship between residents and attendings. St Louis also wasn™t a place where I was excited about potentially living for 5 years.
Wisconsin “ This program may be under the radar to some, but it is one that you will be impressed with. Their level of organization within the residency, collegial atmosphere, and lifestyle were great. From what I gathered, one of their strongest subspecialties is spine. Location is another Big Ten college town (very similar to Iowa City), and is consistently ranked as one of the most livable cities in the US.
Tier 3:
Brown “ This program offers both a great operative experience and strong academics. Their trauma is exceptional and this is a program you should strongly consider if you want to pursue academic medicine. Although New England wasn™t my ideal location, I liked Providence and you™re right on the water. The only real downside for me was the 6th year. Although it sounds like a great experience for some, it just wasn™t for me.
Case Western “ This was my first interview and I walked away impressed with the program. They have great facilities, a Chair that is excited about training the next generation of leaders in the field, good coverage of all subspecialties, and a good balance of OR experience and academics. One thing that was unique about this program from the others I interviewed at was 2 out of the 6 residents do an extra research year. If you are looking to take an extra year and devote solely to research, then this would be a great program for you. The thing I didn™t like was those 2 residents are decided amongst the 6 of you, and if 2 don™t want to volunteer than it turns into a œlottery type assignment.
Yale “ The first thing you™ll experience if you get an interview there is an amazing dinner the night before. All of the residents and attending were a great group and the interviews were very laid back. I really liked the program and one thing that was stood out to me was you get a good mix of academic and private practice experience. You also get quite a bit of research time built in to your 5 years. The residents all seemed to love the program and were all very happy. Location wasn™t ideal for me, but I think this would have been a program I would have enjoyed.
Tier 4:
Arizona
Arkansas
Colorado
Connecticut
Oregon
I ended up matching in my Tier 1 and couldn™t be happier!
Overall, I would have been lucky to train at any one of these programs. I will reiterate that there is no œbest program, as everyone is looking for something a little different based on their career goals, priorities, family, etc. One of the biggest things you will find is that some programs will just seem to œfit better than others.
One of the most important decisions of the application process is where to do your away rotations. I feel that is one of the biggest factors that can give you a huge edge in getting into the residency program of your choice if you make a great impression, work hard, get along well with everyone, and know your stuff. Sit down (with your family if you have one) and make a list of your career goals, what characteristics of a residency program are important to you, where your ideal location is, and anything else that you want in a program. Once you have done that, learn as much as you can about the different programs by reading online forums, going to the program™s websites, talking to ortho advisors, meeting with ortho faculty at your program, talking to applicants from the class ahead of you, and basically anything else you can think of to get info. By rocking an away rotation, not only can you get a great letter that will help you everywhere else you apply, but you have shown them that you can succeed and do well in their program. This goes a long way come interview time and can pay huge dividends.
Also, I would recommend applying broadly because you never know where you will get interviews and it™s always better to have too many than not enough. You will get rejected at places you thought were a lock, while at the same time getting offers from programs you thought you had no shot at. It truly is a random process at its finest. As I mentioned above, I considered spending the extra money as an investment in my future and it paid off well.
Good luck to all future applicants!
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billIam
OSRR Junior
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 57
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:31 pm Post subject:
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I posted this on the other thread, but I'll transfer it for the crew next year. I hope this helps the average, Midwest applicants because I know these threads are pretty heavily tipped toward upper tier programs.
USMLE score: 237(step 1)/233(step 2 - not sent, taken in Feb)
Applied: 75
Offered: 15 (went on 12 due to conflicts)
Ranked: 15 (11 interviews, 2 aways, 2 6 yr options, and I didn't rank 1 pretty well known place because I hated the interview so much)
Research/publications: 3 - 1 ortho, 2 non-ortho
Grades: Honors in Medicine, Surgery, Plastics elective, Orthox2 (but HP at home rotation - why, I still don't know). High Pass in all others except Pass in OB/Gyn
AOA: Nope
Any advice for the next generation of hopefuls: Don't be bashful about applying to a ton of programs. The most important thing is that you match. Trust me, you'd rather get 10 interviews at mid-level programs than 2 at prestigious ones. I'm a pretty average applicant, and I'm glad I applied to a ton of community programs and local programs. It's always fun to do a few places that are "dreams" but it's much more effective to do a TON of schools you think are safety programs.
TIER 1: (ALPHABETICAL ORDER)
Colorado: I mean, c'mon, it's Colorado. I did an away rotation here, and I loved it. The residents are great (they even have a monster truck that they take to CU football games), they have excellent Trauma and the staff are top notch. They are a little short on foot/ankle, but the rest of the program was so strong that I sort of overlooked that.
Tufts: I wasn't sure I would really like this place - but I was blown away by the residents on my interview day. I stayed out until about 3 am drinking with them and shooting the s$(& - they had very positive things to say about the program, and they all were headed to amazing fellowships. Boston is unreal, and they are located right in the heart of the city. Another program that probably gets overlooked because of all of the programs nearby, but I think this place has a much better operative experience than those other "name" programs (of course that's my opinion since I interviewed @ Tufts and not the others...haha).
UNC: This place is really a diamond in the rough. It's so close to Duke and Wake that I think it sometimes gets overlooked - but they have an outstanding program with well known surgeons. Dirschl is a great chair, and Dahners is a Trauma wizard. The didactics here are also probably the best I've seen anywhere. And... being on campus at Chapel Hill gives way to a lot of nice "scenery."
TIER 2:
Akron General: Another program that completely surprised me. This place is unreal. The benefits are 2nd to none, the residents are super cool, and they continually score in the top levels on the OITE. Their caseload is psychotic and I think most of these guys(and girls) feel comfortably tackling just about any surgery they see. This place probably could've gone higher, but being in Akron bumped it down a bit as well as the fact that they don't do "set rotations" (meaning that you may cover a bit of joint/sports/hand, etc all at the same time). There are pluses and minuses to that - but it's less my style. Even so, I'd be more than happy if this is where I ended up.
Henry Ford: I think people knock this program because it's in Detroit, but I was really impressed with both the facilities and the staff. The residents all seemed friendly, and liked to joke around - and the Chairman is a HUGE advocate for the residents (I don't think you'd ever have to pay for a book if you go to this program). It seems like the experience here would be excellent. They also cover some of the local sports teams, which is always a fun perk.
Medical College of Wisconsin: I rotated here. It's only this high because my girlfriend (soon to be fiance) really likes Milwaukee. It's an outstanding program with unbelievable trauma - you will be a good surgeon by the time you're done here. Schmeling (PD) and Roberts are probably the most skilled traumatologists I've seen. The residents are a good group, and the lower classes are especially fun to work with. I'm not sure my personality fits in here very well, but it would sure make my g/f happy - and you know what they say... happy wife [to be, I guess], happy life.
West Virginia: Morgantown is the #1 party school in America - enough said. I honestly wasn't sure what to expect here - but this seems like a program on the rise. They just hired a new well known peds guy and it looks like the program is really rounding out. The residents put on a slide show during the interview day, which basically made me rank this place here instead of lower - they seemed like a great group that like to have fun together, and they're constantly ripping on each other -which is just my style of humor.
TIER 3:
Detroit Med Ctr: Honestly, I don't know what to think about this place. Dr. Blaser (the PD) lambasted my research during my interview, and it really turned me off to the proram (despite really enjoying all of my other interviews). They take you to a Wings game the night before, which was awesome - and the residents are a fun group of guys to hang out/drink with. They cover the Wings for sure, and I think the Pistons (although I'm not sure) - which, again, is kind of cool.
Marshall (WV): This is an up and coming program. The chairman is a very amicable guy - and he will definitely win you over during your interview there. The only caveat about this place is that they interview about 90 people and only rank 30. So choose wisely if this ends up conflicting with other places. They've got a solid foundation in place, and I think in 5-10 years, this may be one of the top programs in the region.
U of Kansas - Wichita: Another program that wasn't on my radar until I got there. Some things you should know about this place: the Chairman basically said that he doesn't like to interview people from the coasts because they are so much less likely to A. Keep their interview appt, and B. Rank them highly. Also, you MUST do the handwritten essay (he basically just wants to see that he can read your handwriting and that you're willing to take the time to do it). I had a 30 minute conversation about guns/hunting with some of the residents here - so if you're in to outdoor activities, this is a good place to check out. Although they are a university program, they function sort of like a community hospital, and I think this is a huge benefit because you get a huge amount of cases and 1:1 attention.
TIER 4:
McLaren (Flint): This is another hidden gem. If you want an interview here, you should apply early though because they send out invites really quick. They only take 2/yr, but they have a huge caseload and the staff are all fellowship trained from well known places. The main reason it's not higher/the major downside is that they send you to Washington state to do your Peds rotation - just didn't seem like something I would do if I had the choice (the upside is that they ALL say it's an incredible experience and that they are basically the primary surgeon on every case out there).
St. Louis University: This place could have easily been somewhere in my top 5 if it weren't a 6 year program. Yeah, it's a mandatory 6 years here. Honestly, I think they have an amazing program and outstanding staff, I just couldn't justify ranking it higher because the opportunity cost of that extra year is so great when you factor in a fellowship.
Wayne State: Going against what I said above, even though this is a 5 year program - it didn't strike me as very stable. They literally got their "go ahead" weeks before we interviewed there and the staff all talked about how they were planning on retiring during my interview. I think if they survive the first 5 years, they'll have a really solid program because they have the facilities and the funding, but I just worry that the RRC won't look to kindly upon a lot of turnover in the first few years.
I ended up matching in my TIER 1! I couldn't be happier with the outcome.
GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE NEXT YEAR!!
i think they shd be mostly amgs..here is it:
Let's start a new thread for everyone to post their stats, rank list, match result, advice for future applicants, etc.
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bailey921
OSRR Newbie
Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 6
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: Non-traditional
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Congrats to those that matched! I too was lucky enough to get good news this week, and wanted to share my experience to encourage future applicants. I came from a Gen Surg program after 2+ years and attempted to switch to Ortho. It had some pluses and minuses, but worked out in the end.
Stats: Abysmal step 1, step 2; Exceptional grades; Exceptional LOR from Gen Surg; 10-12 publications + graduate school; One month on Ortho with 2 letters
Interviews offered: 2, at my Gen Surg program (Yale) and my Medical School (Jefferson)
Match result: Yale
Advice: Working with the Orthopaedics department was the most important factor I think in me matching. I got 2 letters, and was able to show how effectively I worked in the hospital. Having poor board scores definitely limited my options, so consider spending more time studying for Step 1 than I did. Always work hard and be nice to everyone, it goes a long way. Good luck next year!
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xavier
OSRR Newbie
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 8
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:58 pm Post subject: ROL
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I found these lists helpful, so now that I'm done, I'll contribute:
Med School: Top 25 private
Boards: Step I: 242, Step II: 257 (took in june, before my AIs, submitted)
Rank: no class rank at my school
AOA: nope
Clinical Grades: Honors: Gen surg, medicine, ob/gyn. High Pass: psych, fam med, peds, neuro
Ortho Sub-I x2: Did home rotation and 1 away (Miami), received Honors at 1, HP at the other. I thought the HP in my subI meant I was screwed, but read on...
Research: Molecular bench research done throughout undergad and med school, not orthopaedic at all, mostly oncology research... frequently asked about oddly enough; 1 publication from undergrad, 2 presentations
Letters: 1 ortho attending, 1 chairmen from home prog, 1 from PhD from my lab, 1 from a huge name that I was lucky to meet and have offer to write me a letter (this letter was mentioned frequently at interviews)
Thanks you letters sent: 0
Applied: 45
Offered: 15
Attended: 14 (because of scheduling)
Ranked: 15 (5+6 at one program)
1. Emory - Wonderful, well balanced program, great trauma, nice weather
2. Brown - fantastic program, one of the best in the country IMO, great trauma exp as well, undeniable research powerhouse, very academic focus, on the ocean
3. Miami - Solid program overall, rotated here, residents were great, got along well, fantastic trauma, nice weather AND near the ocean
4. U. of Virginia - extremely solid in every area, anyone would be lucky to train here, charlottesville is very nice
5. Mount Carmel - smallish program at 2/yr, but these guys are well trained and happy, a sometimes rare combination
6. Ohio State - rebuilding, but once they're rebuilt, look out, the hospital is throwing a lot of money at this dept., they will be a powerhouse
7. U. of Arizona - Some great personalities here, would have enjoyed this place a lot I think, more sunshine here than just about anywhere
8. Case Western - Should be higher on anyones list honestly, some fantastic people there, a real ortho powerhouse, everything you could want is there, great opportunities. cleveland didn't really do it for me
9. Kalamazoo-MSU - similar to mount carmel IMO, very happy, well trained residents coming out of this place
10. Med. College Wisc.
11. Akron General
12. U. Toledo
13. Wright State
14. Hamot
15. Virginia - 6 yr
Ok, I'm tired of writing about each program.
I think it's important to think about both the program and the location, as you can see from my descriptions. Sunshine and oceans are important to me, so they affected my rank list.
For future applicants: Control the things you can. Kill your usmle exams, because you can. You aren't always going to get honors, even if you earned them. AOA is a subjective gift, not an objective assessment, don't expect it, or care if you don't get it.
Away rotations? Some say this is key, but I only did one. It's good to see other programs to see what you like, but honestly, after my interviews, it became clear that each program was quite similar. So your call as to how important it is. My away was exhausting and expensive, and I'm glad I only did one.
The interview process is random. I didn't get offers from some "backups" (which do not exist in ortho), and received offers from places I had no connection with. I have friends who did not match ortho or were offered very few interviews. Apply broadly to increase your interview offers.
I matched within my top 4. PM for any details or questions. Hope this helps all the future ortho apps.
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Jake Da Snake
OSRR Intern
Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 33
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject:
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I am a guy with a family looking for a balanced program in an affordable and livable city. I suspect I will be a community orthopaedic surgeon and not an academician so operative/clinical experience was slightly more important to me than being able to perform research with big names.
Med School: Top 10 in the west
Boards:
- Step I: 242
- Step II: 247 took early because of school requirement and was on ERAS
Rank: no official ranking, but probably top 50%
AOA: no
Clinical Grades:
- Honors in Gen surg, OB/GYN, and two ortho rotations
- High Pass: Medicine, Psych, Family Medicine, Pediatrics
Ortho Sub-I: Completed one at my home institution and one away.
Research: two pubs from undergrad in unrelated field with some presentations, one ortho project in med school with an abstract and presentation.
Letters: 1 from ortho research advisor, 1 from home sub-I, 1 from away sub-I, and 1 from gen surg faculty who knew me well.
Extracurriculars: nothing special, background in carpentry
Applied: 54
Offered: 9. These were pretty random with no regionalism to them. Three of them (my top 3) came directly (I suspect) from either an away rotation or connections with letter writers and current residents from my school.
Attended: 8, one of them was really late and with short notice and couldn't make it.
Ranked: 9 (5+6 at one program)
note: each of my top three could have easily been #1 and each spent some time at the top. I would have been happy almost anywhere on my list. it came down to overall feel of program, family situation, and community.
My top three in no particular order:
Penn State (Hershey): I really loved this place. I liked the people I met, I loved town of Hershey, call me weird but I liked that there was trauma 1 center with a forest behind and open field in front. My wife enjoyed the town as well. Well balanced program with great residents, faculty, and program leadership. I would recommend this program to anybody with a family who wants a great ortho training experience in a rural setting.
University of Rochester: I cannot say enough good things about this program. I spent a month there and when I was making my rank list I kept coming back to how impressed I was with the residents. The chief residents especially were very knowledgeable and confident. They made decisive and confident decisions in clinic and were comfortable in the OR. they seemed like jr. attendings to me and I learned a lot from them. They are very balanced with tons of researchand well known faculty with a great operative experience. There is a great review on these forums written by a chief resident that I think is very accurate. As a family guy, I liked the town, but its not for everybody. Housing is cheap but property taxes are high.
University of Kentucky (Lexington): matched here I didn't know alot aboutthis place when I interviewed there but was very excited because mywife has family nearby. I liked what I heard and saw on interview day and feel like this is a great program that turns out good surgeons. I was also impressed with the senior residents I interviewed with. The residents seemed to have fun while working and I thought I would fit in. I wrote what I know about the program in these forums and don't know much else about it. The community of Lexington and the cost of living was a huge draw for me as well the fact that there is family nearby for my wife and kids. I matched here and feel extremely forunate to have done so.
The rest in no particular order:
University of Nebraska: I liked this place as well. what impressed me the most was how resident focused they were and how early they get the residents operating. it seemed to me that they will try to get the 1st or 2nd year doing some bread and butter trauma cases if at all possible. They also have a nice biomechanics lab with a very enthusiastic research director. You could get very involved, but some residents don't set foot in there, so it depends on your motivation. Lifestyle seemed nice with cheap cost of living, relatively high salary (48-49K i think), and home call most of the years.
University of Kansas (Kansas City, KS): nice residents and faculty. I think you interview with every faculty on staff! large operative volume. I wasn't able to make it to the pre-interview reception and was in and out of the city so didn't get a good feel for kansas city, but it felt a little big for my style.
Toledo: Would have been happy here. downside was the 4month away at U of Kentucky. its a good experience to be sure, but being a family man I had to put it lower on my list.
University of South Carolina: Small group of dedicated and friendly faculty, good operative experience, good residents. 4 month away rotation was a negative.
Case Western: lots of good things about this program, but it wasn't for me. they stated that there mission was NOT to train community orthopaedic surgeons but to produce the surgeons behind the podium. the 6th year "lottery" was a turn off for me. it rubbed me the wrong way as I placed more value on operative experience than academics and research. Cleveland was a little too big for my family (we like small towns)
Congrats to all who matched, good luck to all those that didn't and the upcoming applicants. Please contact me with questions about any of the programs especially UK as I will be more acquainted with the program in a few short months.
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Schooner
OSRR Newbie
Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 9
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:24 pm Post subject:
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Med School: Top 20 private
Boards: Step I: 241, Step II: 257
No class rank or AOA at my school
Clinical Grades: Mostly Honors with a couple high passes.
Ortho Sub-I x2: Did one at my home school and one away. Honors on both. Solid letters from both.
Research: 12 ortho publications and abstracts
Thanks you letters sent: 0
Applied in couple match
Applied: 25
Offered: 20
Attended: 12
Ranked: 11 - I had to not rank one where I interviewed because of issues with couples match
Rank List:
Brown - Loved this program. Have to like the 6th year trauma fellowship. Providence is surprisingly nice. The residents and faculty seem great.
Duke - amazing interview day. I think they ask too much from their applicants though. They want you to come back for a week long 2nd look and make the "You're my number one" call. Kind of a turn off for me. Resident their seemed really happy though and the location is phenomenal.
Georgetown - Seemed like a good program. I would have been happy here, but I didn't want to be in DC.
Harvard - Love Boston. Program is huge and very spread out. Residents seem happy. Obviously there is the question of operative experience with all of the fellows. I think this is probably overblown but since I did not do a rotation there its hard to tell. Ended up ranking Harvard very high for personal/location reasons.
HSS - Obviously a great name place. Residents quality of life is unmatched in the city. Nothing bad to say about this except my fiancee hates New York.
Miami - South beach and lots of plastic surgery in bikinis...I had a great time here. Might help to learn spanish before going there though...
NYU - Big program in new york city. As you can see from above I ranked this low because of location. I liked the residents I met.
UNC - If you want to do private practice this might be one of the best places to train in the country. The faculty is all about teaching and although they dont have the biggest names as some of the big academic programs you will get amazing training here. Chapel Hill is great...especially if you're single
UPenn - New chairman looks like he'll do good things for the department. I love philly. Residents seem awesome and very happy. This was also very high on my list.
UPitt - Huge name place. Pittsburgh was impressive. Sports complex is a shrine to Dr. Fu. Something about it didn't work for me, but the people there are very happy and seem to enjoy it. They are hands on with a lot of post-match communication.
Vanderbilt - This program rules. I cant say enough good things about it. 2nd year is really tough, but I loved the residents and program. Check this out and think about it really seriously.
Yale - This was my first interview and it really impressed...New Haven leaves something to be desired but the program is phenomenal. The residents here are some of the happiest and best trained of any place I saw and they go on to get fantastic fellowships.
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bonepain
OSRR Newbie
Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 1
Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:16 am Post subject: Stats
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Med School: Top 25 private
Boards: Step I: 252, Step II: 245 (took in November, did not care)
Bench Press: 10x225
Rank: Top 15%
AOA: hahaha...no one cares
Clinical Grades: Honors: Surgery, Medicine, Neuro, Peds, Rads, Ortho. High Pass: psych, fam med,
Ortho: Home and 2 aways
Research/Extra: 2 pubs in basic science from undergrad, lots of Ortho stuff
Letters: Chair, 2 ortho attendings,
Thanks you letters sent: 0
Applied: 40
Offered: 20
Attended: 18
Ranked: 15
Matched at #1...
When I began looking I wanted to go the best program (name, power, prestige, etc) but then I realized I fit in much better with typical Ortho jocks than the types at the super academic programs. I wanted a workhorse type program with normal guys. Every program I interviewed at had great things about it, but every program had a "feel" from resident interactions/socials/seeing the types of interviewees. That was huge for me. Put your head down, work hard, be normal and you will match.
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calvinNhobbes
OSRR Fellow
Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 222
Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:42 am Post subject:
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Reapplicant following a research year.
Med School: Top 40 Private
Boards: Step 1: 230s, Step 2: 240s
Rank: No class rank, but about top 1/3 by GPA I think
AOA: Nope
Clinical Grades: All Honors except High Pass in Psych and OB/GYN
Sub-I x2: Home program and one away. Didn™t do any additional Sub-Is during research year.
Research: 20+ publications, abstracts, presentations, most ortho, including 5 submitted/accepted ortho papers from my research year.
Letters: 1 home chair, 1 home PD, 1 home attending, 1 research chair, 1 research PhD, 1 non-ortho letter. I only sent programs that requested a chair letter my home chair letter because that one was probably the least personal (although I don™t know that for sure). The non-ortho letter only went to those programs that specifically asked for it (UCSF, Tufts, and maybe a few others).
Other stuff: College athlete
Applied: 140
Offered: 42
Attended: 17 (UAB, U Conn, Yale, Emory, AMC, Hopkins, Wash U, NYU-HJD, Rochester, Cleveland Clinic, Case, Brown, MUSC, Orlando, New Mexico, Mizzou, and Wayne St)
Canceled: 25 (UCSF, UCLA, USC, Harbor, Kentucky, Dartmouth, Stony Brook, Cincinnati, Ohio St, WVU, MCW, Shreveport, DMC, Grand Rapids, Seton Hall, Albany, Downstate, LIJ, Lenox Hill, Upstate, Wright St, St. Luke™s, Hamot, JPS, and Marshall)
Most cancellations were due to date conflicts, but 5-6 were cancelled because I was simply burnt out.
Ranked 17: Did not rank one program, ranked one 6-year research track.
Rank criteria: want to do academics (ie. research/reputation), location (near family), cost of living (afford single family home), operative experience (broad exposure, early operative experience), lifestyle (prefer night float), rotations (prefer no away rotations, minimal clinical sites), felt like my personality fit well with faculty and residents, collegial attitude between residents and faculty.
Ranked alphabetical by tiers:
Tier 1: Programs with strong academic reputations, mostly in locations close to family and reasonable cost of living, with good operative experience.
Brown: The biggest drawback for most is it™s a 6-year program, but since I like research and want to do academics it was a plus. Moreover, Brown is different from most 6-year programs. You do not do a full research year between your junior years, but 6 months of a mini-trauma fellowship and 6 months of research at the end. Also, you get paid more like a part time attending during this fellow year than as a resident. The faculty and residents seemed very laid back and collegial towards each others. Well organized and faculty run didactics. Good location for me, reasonable cost of living for NE. No night float and residents said intern and PGY-2 year pretty rough with not much operative time to offset the pain.
Emory: Really seemed to fit in well with the residents and faculty. The operative experience at Emory sounds amazing. Interns do all their call during the year with ortho at Grady, meaning an impressive amount of OR time as an intern and even more as a PGY-2. The lifestyle seems pretty rough for the first couple years since most of it is at Grady, but at least you get to operate a ton. Later years have a better lifestyle with mostly home call. Atlanta is an affordable city with great weather, near family and friends. Apparently starting up a research collaboration with GaTech for mechanical and biomedical engineering projects which is awesome. The only real downside to Emory is they have many clinical sites spread around the city, which can be a pain with traffic. However, this is only for a couple specialty rotations with most time being at Grady or the Emory Ortho hospital.
Rochester: Number one NIH funded ortho department. A night float type call. Didn™t get a good idea if I fit in very well with the residents during my interview, but I was amazed at all the faculty just hanging out and chatting with applicants. Rochester weather sucks, but I have family in the area. Lots of volume, every specialty covered, only have to spilt time between a few clinical sites that are very close to each other. Very affordable and family friendly city.
Wash U: I™ll be honest, Wash U is up here because it™s Wash U and I pretty much knew I had no shot to match here (I requested email feedback and was not œhighly competitive). Obviously an awesome program. Has night float, every specialty, mostly centralized clinical campus, no away rotations, great didactics run by faculty. But I have no family or friends anywhere near by. I actually really liked St. Louis, good size city, affordable, family friendly, and weather pretty good for Midwest. The interviews were definitely intense, and didn™t really get a sense of how the faculty or residents interacted with each other. The residents were very nice, but I felt I was too politically incorrect to fit in well. Not to be sexist, but it could really have just been that I was unused to being around a program with so many women.
Yale: One of my biggest surprises of the season. Some of the happiest residents I met. Sound like they get great operative experience early as an intern and PGY-2 while also having tons of dedicated research time (2.5 months as a 3, 4, and 5). Good mix of faculty experience. Every specialty covered, but you do have one joint rotation about an hour away. Also spend a good chunk of intern year at a different clinical site 30+ min away. New Haven was a really the biggest minus. Cost of living not too bad, but no international airport would really suck for my wife™s family that would need to fly to visit.
Tier 2: Either less academic programs with a great operative experience in goof locations, or great academic programs with something missing.
AMC: Good location (see Emory above). Awesome operative experience with great trauma experience at main hospital and then community rotations with the best private guys in Atlanta including numerous physicians of the pro teams. Also rotations with Emory for tumor and possibly spine and trauma. The residents were real laid back with each other and the faculty. Nice new bioskills labs. The main drawback was the lack of research and academic reputation. However, it sounds like effort is being made to improve this.
Cleveland Clinic: Amazing program, really liked the faculty and residents I met, great academic reputation and research, but the two things that knocked it down were Cleveland (no friends/family) and the lack of trauma. I also didn™t like how many clinical sites you rotate through including 45+ min away for peds.
Orlando: Felt very similar to AMC. Good location, close to family and friends, good weather, and Disney World for the kids. But like AMC, not much research going on which they are also trying to establish with UCF.
Rochester 6-year: All the same as above, but an extra year of research. Don™t really want to spend another year just on research but would rather spend an extra year at a program in a location I want to be at than some of the programs further down the list.
U Conn: Close to family and friends in NE. Sounds like they have a pretty good lifestyle with a lot of mid-level support (no weekday call, covered by PAs!). Awesome bioskills and wetlab space. Seem to have a lot of research money with new faculty coming in. I met almost every residents during the social and interview day. I think it shows a lot if a program can basically give their residents an entire day off just to hang out with applicants. Hartford seemed okay.
Tier 3: Mostly big name places in locations I™d prefer not to be.
Case: Great name, great operative experience. Just felt most of the residents were not happy being in Cleveland.
Hopkins: I™ve been to Baltimore many times, and for some reason I just don™t want to live there. All the faculty and residents were very nice, but I had concerns about the operative experience, especially in trauma and the Shock rotation being dropped.
Mizzou: I think the attendings were the most down to earth and nicest I met. However, I didn™t feel like I fit in well with the residents. Moreover, I did not want to be in a college town and the program is going through a lot of changes.
NYU-HJD: Awesome name and research, Zuckerman is the man, the residents I met were cool, but there are so many of them I felt I barely grazed the surface. It just would have been a huge sacrifice of lifestyle trying to live in NYC. If I was 5 years younger and without kids, it would have definitely been in my Tier 1.
UAB: Good location near family and friends, I just didn™t feel I fit in with the residents and faculty. Plus there seems to have been a lot of faculty leaving recently, so that made me a little wary. But known as a strong program with great operative experience. Birmingham seemed like a very affordable and family friendly city.
Tier 4: Told me I was not a good fit for them, so
MUSC: Some faculty and residents said I wouldn™t fit in because I wanted to do academics. Honestly, I was not impressed and almost didn™t rank them. But I figured spending 5 years in Charleston would be better than not matching.
New Mexico: Was told by PD I was too academic. Not sure why they invited me for an interview, but at least I got to eat some good food while there.
Not ranked:
Wayne St: New program, weird interview day (no tour, no social, only met a couple residents and faculty), decided I™d rather not match than live in Detriot.
I matched in my Tier 1 and am absolutely ecstatic!
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OrthoQB
OSRR Newbie
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 1
Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:28 pm Post subject:
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I'll preface this post by saying that I have a family, and I was looking for a program with great operative experience in a family friendly city. I didn't apply to any of the "big name" programs.
Med School: Midwest Program known for primary care
Step 1: 241
Step 2: Took last week
AOA: Yes
Clinical Grades: All A's (no honors at my school)
Sub-I's: 1 at home, 1 away. Three 2nd looks
Research: 1 ongoing project, no pubs
Letters: 2 ortho attendings, 1 non ortho attending. All were from my home program, and none were big names.
Other: Former college football player
Applied: 63
Offered: 14
Attended: 11
Tier 1(in no particular order): I felt great at all of these programs. All of these could have been number 1 on my list. Location was the ultimate determinant for the exact rank of these programs.
Toledo: Great facilities and great residents. The attendings that I met seemed very approachable. I was also impressed by the number of publications that the attendings churn out. The residents here seemed to operate early and often. I liked the city and the surrounding area, because it is great for a family. All of the subspecialties are covered besides peds. The only downside to this program is the fact that you have to do your peds rotation away from Toledo.
Hamot: Residents take 10 months of ortho call during the intern year. The chairman was a great guy, but some of the other attendings didn't seem as personable. Good bread and butter ortho and great peds experience. The residents all seemed nice, but the atmosphere seemed somewhat "cultish." I felt like they were trying too hard to convince me that Erie didn't suck. Erie seemed like a great place during the late spring and summer with beaches and lots of festivals. However, the winter months seemed pretty dreary.
UT-Chattanooga: All of the residents were normal guys that were fun to spend time with. Great trauma and sports experience. Peds experience seemed pretty weak. Chattanooga is a great city with affordable housing. There are lots of things to do in Chattanooga. The only downside to this program is that they are going to be getting a new chairman. I was unsure as to what direction the program would go with the new chairman. I never met him, but heard he was an outstanding guy by all accounts.
Mt. Carmel: Ultimate country club program. Home call and prolific moonlighting opportunity. Good bread and butter general ortho. Some subspecialties like sports seemed weak. The chairman was the nicest guy I met on the interview trail. The younger residents and the 5th years all seemed like great guys. Some of the 3rd and 4th years didn't seem so great. Columbus is a nice city with lots of things to do.
Tier 2: I would have been ok if I matched at these programs, but not thrilled.
Campbell Clinic: This was an amazing program with great operative experience and research opportunities if wanted. You would be well trained here in all aspects of ortho. The program was a little big for me, and Memphis isn't the safest city for a family.
Marshall: Spent a considerable amount of time at this program because it is pretty local. The residents are all great guys. They are good in the OR, and they are good people. All of the attendings were great, besides the chairman. I got the impression that he is a pretty fake and cocky guy. In addition, he only trains you to do computer navigated knee replacements. He does 0 jig based TKA's. I never felt like he was telling the truth when I talked to him. This seemed to be the impression of the other guys I talked to that rotated there. I think this is a pretty new program, but you would be well trained here.
St. Luke's; Bethlehem, PA: I enjoyed my interview here. The chairman and the other attendings were great. I didn't care much for Bethlehem, but the hospital was impressive. It scared me a little bit that this was a new program with only 1 class of residents.
UK: I love Lexington, and I was looking forward to this interview. The interview as quite weird with Dr. Wright, and the chairman seemed to really love himself. The other attendings were nice guys. I didn't talk much to the residents, so I don't know about them. Sports and trauma seemed to be strongpoints. Peds is also strong here, because there is a Shriner's Hospital in Lexington.
VCU: The residents seemed pretty overworked and tired. They didn't seem to be a cohesive group. All subspecialties are covered and training seemed to be good here. The residents said that you wouldn't seem much OR time until you were a PGY-3. This was a major turnoff to me. Richmond was a decent city. I may have liked it more if I would have explored more of it.
Tier 3: Would have been scared to match at these places.
UIC: The program was great, but Chicago just isn't a good fit for me or my family. If this program was in a smaller city or if I were single, it may have been number 1 on my list. The attendings seemed great. Operative experience here was good too. Seemed to be a good mix of residents. They are on probation, but I suspect that that will be lifted soon.
LSU-Shreveport: One of the residents at the social told the group I was with that we shouldn't consider going there. They are understaffed and on probation because of it. Few subspecialties are covered. Shreveport seemed like an ok city, but I just didn't have a good feeling when I left here. They just hired a new chairman from Baylor, so things may be looking up.
I matched in my first tier and am excited to get started. Good luck to everyone who goes through this process next year.
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mdwstms
OSRR Intern
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 36
Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:54 pm Post subject:
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Med School: midwest
Boards: Step I: 255, Step II: did not have when applied
AOA: yes, junior aoa
Clinical Grades: Honors: medicine, ob/gyn, psych, peds, ER, neuro, 2 home orthos, one away ortho.
High Pass: gen surg
Research: 6 gen surg papers, 1 ortho paper submitted, 2 gen surg talks, 6+abstracts
Letters: very good letters, so i was told; 2 from away rotation, 4 from home program, 1 from medicine chairman at school (used when asked for non-ortho only), mixed and matched letters based on region and where the writer knew people --> RESIDENTS are one key to getting good letters, get them on yourside, then ask them who would write you a good letter, and then you ask the writer and the residnets usually tell the writer that you were good etc.
Thanks you letters sent: emails sent to programs that i wanted to go to shortly after the interview - only sent to chairman and PD, though, and residents I got to know.
Other: anatomy TA, international work (2x trips), fluent in spanish, D1 college athlete, captain
--applied to 40
--got 25 interviews (random, kinda based on region: where I went to school and where did away, and top programs outside of region).
--went on 11 interviews (knew I was a good/almost sure shot at home program and where I rotated)
--1 revisit to program I wanted to go to(not sure if this helped, but am certain that it did not hurt)
--5 phone calls from programs saying I was either ranked to match or they really liked me and would love to have me.
matched at #1, academic program w solid op experience, good trauma, and international research/work opportunities (which turned out not to be home program or where I rotated, but close/same region as where I rotated --> letters from away really helped this I think - and my interests were same as the goal of the program I wanted to go to, which I think really helped, and I think I had a solid interview)
Other advice - choose the programs you interview at carefully. my favorite program was the 3rd to last program I interviewed at and all programs seemed to pale in comparison and I wished I would have chosen more carefully, or at least thought about it more.
Advice for 1st/2nd year students (quoting someone I saw write this).....
----stop ready orthogate and start studying for Step 1 or your classes, it really does make your life much easier and opens so many doors if you do well (and gives you a great deal of confidence, and a leg up in preparing for shelves, which I think helped me do well in rotations)
PLEASE DO NOT JUST READ THIS......POST, esp average applicants that were successful/unsuccessful to give hope to current/future average applicants......AND, let them know what you did (or which you would have done, or might have done wrong) that gave you a foot up and helped you match!!!! Thanks
Good luck to all future applicants and congrats to all those that matched, to those that didn't, keep your head up and follow your heart and guts.
p.m. if you have any questions, I promise to respond.....any questions at all.
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ROL_2010
OSRR Intern
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 46
Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject:
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Med School: state school
Boards: Step 1/Step 2: 250ish
Rank: Top 5%
AOA: Senior
Clinical Grades: All A's
Research: 1 poster presentation, 1 case report, 1 grant (all in another field)
Letters: Home chair, PD, 1 other home letter, 1 away rotation letter
Applied: 60 something
Offered: 30 something
Attended (in order): Emory, Hopkins, AMC, Mayo, UT-Chattanooga, Duke, VCU, Oklahoma, USF, UAB, Louisville, UTSW, Baylor, UNC, Campbell Clinic, University of Washington, Florida, Vanderbilt.
Offered but didn't attend (notable): CMC, Greenville
Ranked: 18 + 1 research spot
Rank criteria: academics (ie. research/reputation to get a great fellowship), operative experience (broad exposure, early operative experience), location (near family), cost of living (afford single family home), good trauma exposure, felt like my personality fit well with faculty and residents, collegial attitude between residents and faculty.
Ranked alphabetical by tiers:
Tier 1A:
Campbell Clinic - ( my #1 and matched here) This program fit exactly what I was looking for in a program (see above criteria) and was my number one choice. Great group of guys that get along well together. Incredible operative experience. Great balance between busy trauma experience at the med and the private patients at the Campbell Clinic. Every subspecialty is well-covered. For next year's applicants, I would highly suggest rotating here as you will get to work with some big names in the field and have a great time. Also, not much is expected of you during your rotation. Basically you show up to scrub in, know anatomy, and do clinic with the attendings. No pre-rounds, rounds, etc. Very laid back rotation for a top-tier program
Vanderbilt - another great program. Residents were genuinely happy and well taken care of. Historically great in trauma and tumor. Some recent faculty turnover was somewhat concerning to me. Not a lot of joints attendings, but has a joints fellowship... Would have loved to have matched here as well (my number 2).
Emory - Felt like this program was very similar to the Campbell Clinic in a lot of ways with the balance between Grady and the private Emory ortho pts. PD was a lot of fun. Residents seemed really happy. Location is fantastic, but expensive as a resident.
Tier 1B: Academic programs with excellent reputations that had only minor issues (location or otherwise).
Mayo Clinic - This place pretty much blew me away. The residents are very happy and well taken care of and you get to operate one-on-one with leaders in the field. Unbelievable facilities. Great low cost of living. My only beef with it was the lack of a high volume trauma experience. I think you get enough bread and butter stuff though and what it lacks in trauma it makes up for in almost every other specialty. Sports also a relative weakness per the residents. Honestly, this would have been my number 2 if not for my wife's geographical preferences.
Florida - Really impressed by this program. Dr. Scarborough is great and the department is probably the most well-funded one I saw outside of Mayo. Oncology is unmatched. Great facilities and a brand new hospital. Residents were cool, loved the location. Only downside was the addition of a trauma fellow to an already light trauma load (per students that rotated here).
University of Washington - Great program that met all my criteria for a great residency program (see above). Well balanced with well known attendings in every field. Loved the location personally, but far from family. Trauma experience is great, but there are a lot of fellows. I think they have more than enough volume to handle it though.
UTSW - Excellent southern program with a great reputation in an awesome city. Very good trauma experience, but you never truly escape from trauma. Kind of weak in hand. Great residents that worked hard (especially 2nd year). Had an interesting night float system that I personally liked.
Tier 2:
UAB - Another excellent, hard-working program in the south. Really liked this program, but didn't feel like I got a good feel for how it was on interview day as I missed the pre-interview dinner and had very limited interactions with the residents on interview day.
Wake Forest - Truly under-rated program. Excellent didactics, ample operative experience, incredible research support. Hand and upper extremity is unmatched. Overall great residents, but a few weren't as easy to get along with as others. Affordable city that I saw as a real positive being close to the mountains and not too far from the beach.
Johns Hopkins - Kind of underwhelming considering the name. Got the impression that operative experience wasn't the best, but that you could land a great fellowship coming out of here. Great peds and upper extremity. Trauma was questionable as they no longer rotate at Shock. Tradition was really impressive. Baltimore was a negative for me.
Tier 3:
UNC - I think this place has a better lifestyle than any other place I saw, maybe too good. Mentor training style has unique advantages and disadvantages, and honestly I saw them working a lot better at the Mayo Clinic. Trauma seemed very light as they go rotate at Wake Med (not Wake Forest) for a private practice trauma experience. Location was a big plus for me.
Louisville - A truly under-rated program with great trauma, joints, hand, and spine. Sports is a relative weakness. Great group of residents that get along well together. Didactics are mostly resident-run and were not a problem in my eyes. Chair was stepping down. Very fun and affordable city. Great place to rotate if you are looking for an under-the-radar sort of place that doesn't get a ton of rotators.
Duke - They really do a great job of selling this place on interview day. The residents put together a great picture of the program and make you want to go there while you're there. However, the whole overdone recruiting effort was really off-putting for me. One of my friends went back for a second look and thought the operative experience was lacking. Great reputation. Great location.
USF - Program on the rise. PD is a real asset to the program. Great lifestyle. Cool group of residents and excellent location. Would get to work with some big names at FOI while you're here. Location is a huge plus. I would have liked to see them have a more involved experience at Tampa General for trauma.
Baylor
Oklahoma
UT Chattanooga
AMC
VCU
I would have been extremely happy to have matched almost anywhere on my list. I am so excited and feel very fortunate to be going to my first choice. This whole process was expensive and somewhat exhausting, but I met a lot of cool guys on the trail that I will keep in touch with and honestly had a lot of fun. Just be yourself and ignore a lot of the BS you hear on this forum and from other applicants blowing smoke. Also understand that there is no such thing as "the best" program. Everybody has different priorities and goals and will be attracted to different programs accordingly.
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THRA
OSRR Newbie
Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Posts: 3
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:30 am Post subject:
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all the inputs so far are great. it will be kind of others to send in ur match details or profile.
it would also be interesting to see some profiles who did not match and why?
thanks
THRA
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thatswhatshesaid
OSRR Junior
Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 60
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:15 am Post subject:
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I would say that this thread pretty accurately represents this year's applicant pool so we should just close it and make it a sticky now.
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TexOrtho
OSRR Junior
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 62
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:06 pm Post subject: No match
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Heys guys, I did not match but do not know why.
Step1 260 step 2 267
AOA
no ortho research
18 interviews with 20 ranks (6 yr tracks)
I felt like I had great interviews but I guess not
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ROL_2010
OSRR Intern
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 46
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:58 pm Post subject:
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Med School: State school
Boards: Step 1: 250+/Step 2: Taken late and not available for ERAS
Rank: No œofficial class rank, but top 10%
AOA: Yes
Clinical Grades: All Honors except for peds
Ortho Sub-I: Home program + 2 aways. Honors in all three.
Research: A few ortho projects, 0 publications
Letters: Probably one of the greatest strengths of my application. 1 home ortho chair, 1 well-known ortho mentor, 1 ortho research, and 1 ortho away. My letters were brought up and commented on how impressive they were at almost every interview.
Applied: 50+ - I know, some will say that™s too many but I looked at the application process as an investment in the rest of career, so I thought the few hundred extra $$$ was just a small drop in the bucket in the long run. Remember, it™s much better to have too many interviews than not enough!
Offered: 30+
Attended: 17 “ Again, it™s better to be able to pick and choose which interviews you really want to attend. Went in initially with the mindset that I would attend as many as possible in order to look at the different programs plus I enjoy traveling, but by the end of December I was exhausted and cancelled 6-8 interviews that were scheduled in January that I wasn™t highly interested in anyways.
Ranked: 16
Post-Interview Contact: I was told by 5 programs I was ranked in their top X (with X being the number of spots in the PGY-1 class)
Additional Advice: Once you submit your application, make an Excel spreadsheet with the names of the programs and their interview dates if you can find them (either posted on their website, or you can email/call the program coordinator). This will allow you to pick the dates with the least amount of overlap and minimize scheduling conflicts. Also, have a phone with email access that will allow you to respond immediately to interview offers. There are typically only 2-3 dates available for each program and the desirable ones fill up extremely fast.
What was I looking for in a program? I wanted to go to a program that offered a great operative experience, covered all subspecialties (breadth, depth), had a strong reputation and fellowship placement track record, good opportunities for research, a low cost of living, and residents/attendings that were fun to be around (collegial). Balance between operative experience and academics was a key thing that I looked for, because I preferred a program that didn™t sacrifice either one too much. Extras included location (smaller city or town) and, if possible, warm weather.
Programs Ranked Alphabetically by Tiers:
Tier 1:
Duke “ A strong program that provides great subspecialty coverage and has good depth within each field. The interview day was one of the best I saw, and everyone there (including the residents) will basically have your application memorized and know everything about you. They seem genuinely interested in getting to know you and are very proud of their program. They have night float if that is what you are looking for and Durham offers a good quality of living with warm weather.
Iowa “ I heard from a number of people even before my interview that this was a great program. It has a strong tradition and their Chair (Dr. Buckwalter) is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. They have a ton of research opportunities and are one of the top in the nation in terms of academic production. With that being said, I feel you also receive a great operative experience and overall it was a well-balanced program. I actually really liked Iowa City as it is a Big Ten college town and would be a good place to live whether you are single or have a family. However, if you want to live in a big city this program is probably not for you.
Mayo “ Well, it™s The Mayo Clinic. Their facilities are amazing and if you are interested in research you will have every opportunity imaginable. They have a preceptorship-type model where you work one-on-one with an attending vs. a standard team-based model. Whether this is good or bad depends on what you are looking for. Personally, I like the team-based model better, but at Mayo you are working very closely with world leaders in the field. One of the biggest drawbacks for me was the location. Rochester is far from my family and can get very cold. However, it is affordable and if you have a family you will be able to easily get a nice house.
Vanderbilt “ This is a strong program in an awesome location. Every subspecialty is covered and the residents are a great group of people. If offers one of the best operative experiences I have seen if that is what you are looking for. Also has a good variety of research opportunities available, making it another well-balanced program. You really can™t find a better location to live than Nashville as it offers most amenities/entertainment/restaurants/bars/etc. as a larger city, yet it is still affordable and has a high quality of living if you have a family. Oh, and warm weather is always a plus.
Tier 2:
Harvard “ Another top program that will get you wherever you want to go in your career. Tons of research opportunities, great facilities, attendings are leaders in the field, and the program has a very strong tradition. Although every subspecialty is covered very well and the depth is outstanding, I felt that as a resident your operative experience was limited in comparison to some of the other programs I saw. The only other drawback for me besides limited early operative experience was location, as I did not want to live in a huge city. A lot of people love Boston, so if you are looking for a top program in a large city and want to pursue academic medicine you should definitely check it out.
Utah “ In my opinion, this is one of the best programs in the West. Word is getting out about how great of a place this is so it™s getting more and more competitive every year. Great balance between operative experience and academics, and their facilities are top notch. Everyone I met on interview day was nice and it seemed like a good group of people. If you are into the outdoors, I don™t think you will find a better location than this.
Wash-U St. Louis “ This program was impressive. They have great facilities, a good balance between academics and OR experience, deep coverage in every subspecialty, and a night float system. Although they have quite a few fellows, I didn™t get the sense that they stole many cases from the residents. The Chair and PD emphasized the importance of resident education, which I believed. Oh, and their didactics were one of the most comprehensive and organized that I have seen. The interview day, however, was more œstuffy than others and I got the impression that there wasn™t as much of a collegial relationship between residents and attendings. St Louis also wasn™t a place where I was excited about potentially living for 5 years.
Wisconsin “ This program may be under the radar to some, but it is one that you will be impressed with. Their level of organization within the residency, collegial atmosphere, and lifestyle were great. From what I gathered, one of their strongest subspecialties is spine. Location is another Big Ten college town (very similar to Iowa City), and is consistently ranked as one of the most livable cities in the US.
Tier 3:
Brown “ This program offers both a great operative experience and strong academics. Their trauma is exceptional and this is a program you should strongly consider if you want to pursue academic medicine. Although New England wasn™t my ideal location, I liked Providence and you™re right on the water. The only real downside for me was the 6th year. Although it sounds like a great experience for some, it just wasn™t for me.
Case Western “ This was my first interview and I walked away impressed with the program. They have great facilities, a Chair that is excited about training the next generation of leaders in the field, good coverage of all subspecialties, and a good balance of OR experience and academics. One thing that was unique about this program from the others I interviewed at was 2 out of the 6 residents do an extra research year. If you are looking to take an extra year and devote solely to research, then this would be a great program for you. The thing I didn™t like was those 2 residents are decided amongst the 6 of you, and if 2 don™t want to volunteer than it turns into a œlottery type assignment.
Yale “ The first thing you™ll experience if you get an interview there is an amazing dinner the night before. All of the residents and attending were a great group and the interviews were very laid back. I really liked the program and one thing that was stood out to me was you get a good mix of academic and private practice experience. You also get quite a bit of research time built in to your 5 years. The residents all seemed to love the program and were all very happy. Location wasn™t ideal for me, but I think this would have been a program I would have enjoyed.
Tier 4:
Arizona
Arkansas
Colorado
Connecticut
Oregon
I ended up matching in my Tier 1 and couldn™t be happier!
Overall, I would have been lucky to train at any one of these programs. I will reiterate that there is no œbest program, as everyone is looking for something a little different based on their career goals, priorities, family, etc. One of the biggest things you will find is that some programs will just seem to œfit better than others.
One of the most important decisions of the application process is where to do your away rotations. I feel that is one of the biggest factors that can give you a huge edge in getting into the residency program of your choice if you make a great impression, work hard, get along well with everyone, and know your stuff. Sit down (with your family if you have one) and make a list of your career goals, what characteristics of a residency program are important to you, where your ideal location is, and anything else that you want in a program. Once you have done that, learn as much as you can about the different programs by reading online forums, going to the program™s websites, talking to ortho advisors, meeting with ortho faculty at your program, talking to applicants from the class ahead of you, and basically anything else you can think of to get info. By rocking an away rotation, not only can you get a great letter that will help you everywhere else you apply, but you have shown them that you can succeed and do well in their program. This goes a long way come interview time and can pay huge dividends.
Also, I would recommend applying broadly because you never know where you will get interviews and it™s always better to have too many than not enough. You will get rejected at places you thought were a lock, while at the same time getting offers from programs you thought you had no shot at. It truly is a random process at its finest. As I mentioned above, I considered spending the extra money as an investment in my future and it paid off well.
Good luck to all future applicants!
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billIam
OSRR Junior
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 57
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:31 pm Post subject:
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I posted this on the other thread, but I'll transfer it for the crew next year. I hope this helps the average, Midwest applicants because I know these threads are pretty heavily tipped toward upper tier programs.
USMLE score: 237(step 1)/233(step 2 - not sent, taken in Feb)
Applied: 75
Offered: 15 (went on 12 due to conflicts)
Ranked: 15 (11 interviews, 2 aways, 2 6 yr options, and I didn't rank 1 pretty well known place because I hated the interview so much)
Research/publications: 3 - 1 ortho, 2 non-ortho
Grades: Honors in Medicine, Surgery, Plastics elective, Orthox2 (but HP at home rotation - why, I still don't know). High Pass in all others except Pass in OB/Gyn
AOA: Nope
Any advice for the next generation of hopefuls: Don't be bashful about applying to a ton of programs. The most important thing is that you match. Trust me, you'd rather get 10 interviews at mid-level programs than 2 at prestigious ones. I'm a pretty average applicant, and I'm glad I applied to a ton of community programs and local programs. It's always fun to do a few places that are "dreams" but it's much more effective to do a TON of schools you think are safety programs.
TIER 1: (ALPHABETICAL ORDER)
Colorado: I mean, c'mon, it's Colorado. I did an away rotation here, and I loved it. The residents are great (they even have a monster truck that they take to CU football games), they have excellent Trauma and the staff are top notch. They are a little short on foot/ankle, but the rest of the program was so strong that I sort of overlooked that.
Tufts: I wasn't sure I would really like this place - but I was blown away by the residents on my interview day. I stayed out until about 3 am drinking with them and shooting the s$(& - they had very positive things to say about the program, and they all were headed to amazing fellowships. Boston is unreal, and they are located right in the heart of the city. Another program that probably gets overlooked because of all of the programs nearby, but I think this place has a much better operative experience than those other "name" programs (of course that's my opinion since I interviewed @ Tufts and not the others...haha).
UNC: This place is really a diamond in the rough. It's so close to Duke and Wake that I think it sometimes gets overlooked - but they have an outstanding program with well known surgeons. Dirschl is a great chair, and Dahners is a Trauma wizard. The didactics here are also probably the best I've seen anywhere. And... being on campus at Chapel Hill gives way to a lot of nice "scenery."
TIER 2:
Akron General: Another program that completely surprised me. This place is unreal. The benefits are 2nd to none, the residents are super cool, and they continually score in the top levels on the OITE. Their caseload is psychotic and I think most of these guys(and girls) feel comfortably tackling just about any surgery they see. This place probably could've gone higher, but being in Akron bumped it down a bit as well as the fact that they don't do "set rotations" (meaning that you may cover a bit of joint/sports/hand, etc all at the same time). There are pluses and minuses to that - but it's less my style. Even so, I'd be more than happy if this is where I ended up.
Henry Ford: I think people knock this program because it's in Detroit, but I was really impressed with both the facilities and the staff. The residents all seemed friendly, and liked to joke around - and the Chairman is a HUGE advocate for the residents (I don't think you'd ever have to pay for a book if you go to this program). It seems like the experience here would be excellent. They also cover some of the local sports teams, which is always a fun perk.
Medical College of Wisconsin: I rotated here. It's only this high because my girlfriend (soon to be fiance) really likes Milwaukee. It's an outstanding program with unbelievable trauma - you will be a good surgeon by the time you're done here. Schmeling (PD) and Roberts are probably the most skilled traumatologists I've seen. The residents are a good group, and the lower classes are especially fun to work with. I'm not sure my personality fits in here very well, but it would sure make my g/f happy - and you know what they say... happy wife [to be, I guess], happy life.
West Virginia: Morgantown is the #1 party school in America - enough said. I honestly wasn't sure what to expect here - but this seems like a program on the rise. They just hired a new well known peds guy and it looks like the program is really rounding out. The residents put on a slide show during the interview day, which basically made me rank this place here instead of lower - they seemed like a great group that like to have fun together, and they're constantly ripping on each other -which is just my style of humor.
TIER 3:
Detroit Med Ctr: Honestly, I don't know what to think about this place. Dr. Blaser (the PD) lambasted my research during my interview, and it really turned me off to the proram (despite really enjoying all of my other interviews). They take you to a Wings game the night before, which was awesome - and the residents are a fun group of guys to hang out/drink with. They cover the Wings for sure, and I think the Pistons (although I'm not sure) - which, again, is kind of cool.
Marshall (WV): This is an up and coming program. The chairman is a very amicable guy - and he will definitely win you over during your interview there. The only caveat about this place is that they interview about 90 people and only rank 30. So choose wisely if this ends up conflicting with other places. They've got a solid foundation in place, and I think in 5-10 years, this may be one of the top programs in the region.
U of Kansas - Wichita: Another program that wasn't on my radar until I got there. Some things you should know about this place: the Chairman basically said that he doesn't like to interview people from the coasts because they are so much less likely to A. Keep their interview appt, and B. Rank them highly. Also, you MUST do the handwritten essay (he basically just wants to see that he can read your handwriting and that you're willing to take the time to do it). I had a 30 minute conversation about guns/hunting with some of the residents here - so if you're in to outdoor activities, this is a good place to check out. Although they are a university program, they function sort of like a community hospital, and I think this is a huge benefit because you get a huge amount of cases and 1:1 attention.
TIER 4:
McLaren (Flint): This is another hidden gem. If you want an interview here, you should apply early though because they send out invites really quick. They only take 2/yr, but they have a huge caseload and the staff are all fellowship trained from well known places. The main reason it's not higher/the major downside is that they send you to Washington state to do your Peds rotation - just didn't seem like something I would do if I had the choice (the upside is that they ALL say it's an incredible experience and that they are basically the primary surgeon on every case out there).
St. Louis University: This place could have easily been somewhere in my top 5 if it weren't a 6 year program. Yeah, it's a mandatory 6 years here. Honestly, I think they have an amazing program and outstanding staff, I just couldn't justify ranking it higher because the opportunity cost of that extra year is so great when you factor in a fellowship.
Wayne State: Going against what I said above, even though this is a 5 year program - it didn't strike me as very stable. They literally got their "go ahead" weeks before we interviewed there and the staff all talked about how they were planning on retiring during my interview. I think if they survive the first 5 years, they'll have a really solid program because they have the facilities and the funding, but I just worry that the RRC won't look to kindly upon a lot of turnover in the first few years.
I ended up matching in my TIER 1! I couldn't be happier with the outcome.
GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE NEXT YEAR!!
