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Harpreet
Hello everybody, I am hearing that program directors will always give preferanse to graduates from Western European/Australia/Canada medschools, even if they have much lower scores than peoples from developing world like India. Is this true?. This is big injustise if true, how can we overcome? I am thinking of application 2006. Please advice thank you
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Dr Joe
It is true, and I will tell you why - American residency programs are looking for people who will easily adapt/ fit into to the US system. As the training in Canada, UK/Europe or Australia is seen as comparable to US training, directors prefer to take these graduates (they know what they are getting). If you didn't train in one of these countries you should get some US experience.
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Really?
Do you really think that your great scores prove anything???
USMLE scores are inconsistent with your clinical performance in the future. They are inconsistent even among the USMLE Steps. My scores are: Step1:75, Step2: 75, Step3: 93. They correlate best with amount of time you spent preparing for them, money that you have to do without any work while preparing, nice food, good sex and other good things that you have (or don't have) when you are studying for USMLE. This is my and many other people's experience> So don't think that you deserve any preferential treatment based on your scores!!!
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Balbir
Harpreet brother, my understanding is that program directors give preference nowadays to people from third world countries like India and Pakistan- because they know how hard working and dedicated we are. Don't lose faith
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DR Joe
Hey there Balbir
I REALLY hope you are right b'cos that would be an enlightened attitude
Regarding "really's" post about high USMLE scores- you are absolutely right- high scores show you are a good exam taker not necessarily a good clinician, however, the scores is one way the directors can compare us to US Grads who take the same exam.
Joe
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just an img from 'nowhere'
as imgs from developing countries we are frowned upon but look in the bright side....once u do get into a residency from some less than top notch place.....we can show our true colors and how good we are as doctors eventhough we come from 3rd world countries......there are many doctors today who came from these places and are top docs in top places.....many are directors and taking american graduates for his or her programme.......so the point is we will get there but the road is bumpy and rough but who cares because guys like me will have the last laugh i am pretty sure just like the others who came before me...so don't worry.
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gosh!
Harpreet,
Well if you spell preferense........the way you do.....its not a wonder why they prefer canadian, aussie grads!!!!!
Sure exams score dont matter, just like GMAT doesnt matter, or TOEFL doesnt matter. And it def. doesnt matter to a guy who gets 75 or 78 on the steps!!!
You can say that its not all that matters....but please save us the correlation between good clinicians and low scores!! Nice consolation you give yourself "really"!!!
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gosh!
Sorry you spelt it preferanse....I corrected one vowel for you accidentally!!!!!!!! Even if I try, cant spell it so wrong, can I!
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joewest
Here are my thoughts: 1- Things are a lot tougher for IMG's, and that's absolutely fair. Every country will defend and prefer their own folks. AMG's pay taxes, their families pay taxes, they spend a fortune to go to Med school etc. Is it fair for IMG's to come from another country, sometimes not having spent a dime on medical education, but still get the same opportunities?... I don't think so. I've seen IMG's get the most prestigious residency positions in this country. They were given preference over very qualified AMG's. It's your job to prove you're worthy. I have been ofered great opportunities in this country, as have many other IMG's. Just try to do the same in European or South American countries. You don't stand a chance! No matter how good you are. I bet my life this country gives foreigners better opportunities than any other country in the world.
2- Scores ARE important. All PD's agree with me. Otherwise they wouldn't use it as the absolute #1 criterion for selection. Only low scorers think it does not reflect your theoretical medical knowledge, which is understandable. Pleople always try to shield their egos from their personal failures. I agree, however, that it certainly does not mean you'll be a good physician.
3- People from western countries do have a preference over people from other countries. That's because their cultures are a lot more similar to the US. It's easier for them to adapt. On the flip side, there are a lot of PD's from non-western countries... in this case the situation might change drastically.
Good luck to everyone. Remember... we're all immigrants to this country afterall...
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Really?
Again, my scores are: Step1-75, Step2-75, Step 3-93. Am I a low scorer or what? The reason is that I had to work hard while I was studying for the first two Steps, and also had some family problems at that time. While preparing for Step 3, I had enough money for everything to stay without any job, and allowed myself enough time. Does my last score reflect a drastic increase in my learning ability? Don't think so, despite my ego. It only reflects the greater amount of time that I had to have my ass seated preparing for that. As for the importance of the scores in the eyes of PD's, it's a very unfortunate truth, for those programs that are strongly oriented for foreign medical grads. As for prestigeous university programs where most residents are Americans, you can hardly find a 99-scorers among the residents. Most of them have quite average scores, and some of them may have their scores in the range of 75-80. Fortunately, the approach of "IMG-friendly" program directors have been questioned recently, due to the total lack of correlation between multiple-choice tests and subsequent clinical performance. As parts of the process, you can see CCS part of USMLE Step 3, plans to introduce other non-multiple choice exams and plans to change the assessment system. In other words, performance on MCQ specialty board exams in various specialties will no longer serve as the only criterion for evaluation of residency programs. Rather, programs will be judged on the clinical performance of their graduates in the very near future. And one more thing to consider: when I passed my first two USMLE Steps, they were paper-based at the time, and even the passing rate for IMG's was slightly below 50% for both Steps. Now, with computer-based exams, the rate increased to 64% for Step1 and 78% for Step 2. Respectively, the score of 85 was considered a very good score in 1996-1998, and now it's quite an average score. There are many factors contributing to the change, including availability of excellent study guides. Anyway, how can you deal with those facts keeping in mind that in some programs a coordinator with a high school diploma dares to compare the performance based on the numerical values, without considering the year those scores were obtained? Think about that, before overemphasizing the importance of USMLE scores!
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